turbo build cost?
11-20-2008, 12:10 PM
#21
turbo 400 is good cheaper trans option. and then maybe a used rear end nine inch or whatever.
lq9 or forged piston rod with stock crank is not too bad for bucks. And ls6 intakes are cheap. Cams z06 cams or used cams they are roller so don't wear out really.
Some reasonable headers out there now. Fuel system and tuning another mabye 2500 or so right there. Spray for sure is cheapest route.
lq9 or forged piston rod with stock crank is not too bad for bucks. And ls6 intakes are cheap. Cams z06 cams or used cams they are roller so don't wear out really.
Some reasonable headers out there now. Fuel system and tuning another mabye 2500 or so right there. Spray for sure is cheapest route.
11-20-2008, 12:23 PM
#22
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i say dive in head first...don't dip your toe in.
where's the excitment in that? the real rush
comes at the point of no return.
DO IT! DO IT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoqDYcCDOTg&NR=1
where's the excitment in that? the real rush
comes at the point of no return.
DO IT! DO IT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoqDYcCDOTg&NR=1
11-20-2008, 12:47 PM
#23
In my opinion if you spend more than $5k on a turbo kit it better come with an engine. So many people are hooked on the previous monopolized "LS1" prices its sickening.
Another 5 into the short block and another close to 5 into the top end.
And really don't think will go much over 800rwhp or so. Its just not needed. 600rwhp is plennty on the street and still fast enough I think to hit 9s which requires a lot of crap on most tracks .Full cage,medical etc.
And really don't think will go much over 800rwhp or so. Its just not needed. 600rwhp is plennty on the street and still fast enough I think to hit 9s which requires a lot of crap on most tracks .Full cage,medical etc.
800hp you should be able to use stock 6.0 block crank, get some new rods, pistons and a stock set of L92 heads....pump gas and boosted would get you there if not more... all could be had for a 1/3 of what you paid. Unless you got some more details im kinda blown away. And im not being a dick, just around where I live that is nuts.. Maybe Massachusetts is different?
11-20-2008, 01:02 PM
#24
I agree you can get ripped by not knowing how much something should cost. Hell, that goes true for cab rides in NYC as well, but who's counting!? haha
Seriously though, you can't build a quality turbo setup "on the cheap". You may build effective setups, but they won't hold a chance door-to-door vs. a well thought out high quality setup. I saved money here and there, traded parts for parts, went logs instead of custom built headers, but money has got to be spent in certain areas. We all know that though.
11-20-2008, 01:07 PM
#25
I'll debate that statement. It should be like...."the less you know the more it will cost you".
In my opinion if you spend more than $5k on a turbo kit it better come with an engine. So many people are hooked on the previous monopolized "LS1" prices its sickening.
No offense but 5k on a shortblock and 5k on the top end and your only going to be around 800hp and 9s? Sounds like you got raped. Do you have a big cubed LSX block with a set of All-Pro heads? If not thats crazy.
800hp you should be able to use stock 6.0 block crank, get some new rods, pistons and a stock set of L92 heads....pump gas and boosted would get you there if not more... all could be had for a 1/3 of what you paid. Unless you got some more details im kinda blown away. And im not being a dick, just around where I live that is nuts.. Maybe Massachusetts is different?
In my opinion if you spend more than $5k on a turbo kit it better come with an engine. So many people are hooked on the previous monopolized "LS1" prices its sickening.
No offense but 5k on a shortblock and 5k on the top end and your only going to be around 800hp and 9s? Sounds like you got raped. Do you have a big cubed LSX block with a set of All-Pro heads? If not thats crazy.
800hp you should be able to use stock 6.0 block crank, get some new rods, pistons and a stock set of L92 heads....pump gas and boosted would get you there if not more... all could be had for a 1/3 of what you paid. Unless you got some more details im kinda blown away. And im not being a dick, just around where I live that is nuts.. Maybe Massachusetts is different?
11-20-2008, 01:11 PM
#26
Apparently in Janesville, WI shop labor rates are free.
Around here if you want big numbers and low ET you pay to play. You dont get a thrown together combination of parts hoping it will work.
If people are willing to pay for proven combo's and quality parts what the big deal? Why does it ruffle your feathers of bad?
Your Nova is a killer ride. You built it on a budget. You built it yourself. Take pride in that. Be the exception to the rule.
Just dont expect everyone else to have to tools and know how to pull it off the way you did. Thats where alot of the $ Savings $ you speak of come from.
Around here if you want big numbers and low ET you pay to play. You dont get a thrown together combination of parts hoping it will work.
If people are willing to pay for proven combo's and quality parts what the big deal? Why does it ruffle your feathers of bad?
Your Nova is a killer ride. You built it on a budget. You built it yourself. Take pride in that. Be the exception to the rule.
Just dont expect everyone else to have to tools and know how to pull it off the way you did. Thats where alot of the $ Savings $ you speak of come from.
11-20-2008, 01:14 PM
#27
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lets face it. the more you know how to do,the cheaper its going to be. (not fi related but same principle) hats why my paintjob is costing me around 1500 for all the materials i need instead of 8000-10000 like a lot of shops would do. this gets me the whole car inside and out, engine bay, jambs, underneath, 2 hoods, 2 spoilers, etc etc.
11-20-2008, 01:17 PM
#28
I agree there are some overpriced stuff out there, but you are not going to convince me that a master power turbo 78mm is comprable to a TC 78.
I agree you can get ripped by not knowing how much something should cost. Hell, that goes true for cab rides in NYC as well, but who's counting!? haha
Seriously though, you can't build a quality turbo setup "on the cheap". You may build effective setups, but they won't hold a chance door-to-door vs. a well thought out high quality setup. I saved money here and there, traded parts for parts, went logs instead of custom built headers, but money has got to be spent in certain areas. We all know that though.
I agree you can get ripped by not knowing how much something should cost. Hell, that goes true for cab rides in NYC as well, but who's counting!? haha
Seriously though, you can't build a quality turbo setup "on the cheap". You may build effective setups, but they won't hold a chance door-to-door vs. a well thought out high quality setup. I saved money here and there, traded parts for parts, went logs instead of custom built headers, but money has got to be spent in certain areas. We all know that though.
My cheap turbo setups ive made total to around $2k for everything.
Turbo $700
Header material, hot side and all flanges $300
Wastegate $350
Intercooler $250 w/ piping
60# injectors $350
BOV $150
So $2100..... Throw in an expensive turbo at another $2k (minus the 700 one) and the total is $3100. Labor for welding the header tubes all up....even if it was a grand (which is HIGH) thats only $4100.
Do kits even come with injectors?
So yea if your paying $5k for a kit it better be an 8 second turbo setup and come with some magic tricks.
What is funny is I see truck manifold kits in the 4k+ range....WOW. a couple elbows is the hotside.
Granted all the parts you need are selected for you, it doesnt take much research to figure out what you need and then buy it seperate....you only save thousands of dollars.
11-20-2008, 01:20 PM
#29
I'll debate that statement. It should be like...."the less you know the more it will cost you".
In my opinion if you spend more than $5k on a turbo kit it better come with an engine. So many people are hooked on the previous monopolized "LS1" prices its sickening.
No offense but 5k on a shortblock and 5k on the top end and your only going to be around 800hp and 9s? Sounds like you got raped. Do you have a big cubed LSX block with a set of All-Pro heads? If not thats crazy.
800hp you should be able to use stock 6.0 block crank, get some new rods, pistons and a stock set of L92 heads....pump gas and boosted would get you there if not more... all could be had for a 1/3 of what you paid. Unless you got some more details im kinda blown away. And im not being a dick, just around where I live that is nuts.. Maybe Massachusetts is different?
In my opinion if you spend more than $5k on a turbo kit it better come with an engine. So many people are hooked on the previous monopolized "LS1" prices its sickening.
No offense but 5k on a shortblock and 5k on the top end and your only going to be around 800hp and 9s? Sounds like you got raped. Do you have a big cubed LSX block with a set of All-Pro heads? If not thats crazy.
800hp you should be able to use stock 6.0 block crank, get some new rods, pistons and a stock set of L92 heads....pump gas and boosted would get you there if not more... all could be had for a 1/3 of what you paid. Unless you got some more details im kinda blown away. And im not being a dick, just around where I live that is nuts.. Maybe Massachusetts is different?
I said I was targetting 800rwhp and high 9s. Reasonable goal. I didn't say could go beyond that with planned direct port or maybe upgrade on my turbos.
Main think is have a forged crank. Yeah factory can do around 800rwhp not sure how much more. And have few other extras in then engine. Hellfire rings, better piston pins.And I wanted better heads,thicker deck..Sure could get buy with maybe some patriots or stockers but again they don't have the thicker deck. And they don't flow like my afr.
As for kit well think my kit was very high quality and reasonble price at 5500 shipped. It has two turbos, huge intecooler.All the piping is high grade stainless and the tig welding is perfection. It all fit great and looks like stock option. Very stealth and I can keep my air and nothing much go relocated.
I got a dud turbo such is life will get it fixed up over next few months. Got all winter to fix it..
So yeah you can cobble together a kit if you have the skills and time. Many have .And you can possibly save some money and seen good results with the cheap master power turbos even at my own track. Long term no idea how they hold up. And seen lots of ebay cobbled together junk here and there as well. Some worked out ok some didn't. Some guys bought knock off wastegates and blow offs. Some knock off turbos. YMMV.
I went pretty expensive route but feel better knowing that have a pretty much bulletproof engine to maybe 1300rwhp or so if want to go there. I can tell you that much over 600rwhp is plenty for any sane street car and even at track 9s is flying. Who wants to put in a full cage,get medical and all that crap? I sure don't.Try to take some passengers with a full cage.
I have a dedicated race car for that .Don't need to trash up a nice ta.
There is no need for a faster than high 9s steet car . But if you have one and use it best of luck staying out of prison these days. They are getting harsher and harsher on speeding and street racing.
Quality costs money usually. Have no need for a 2000 hp lsx block. Have no need for a 427 with the tts.
And as said you can cut corners and save some money..turbo 400 ,maybe used rear end. 370 or stock 346 with stock crank and stock intake and even stock cam and heads just forged pistons and rods. And you can make a turbo kit or buy used kit. You can buy knock off stuff and use muffler pipe ,pvc whatever..each to his own.
11-20-2008, 01:30 PM
#30
Apparently in Janesville, WI shop labor rates are free.
Around here if you want big numbers and low ET you pay to play. You dont get a thrown together combination of parts hoping it will work.
If people are willing to pay for proven combo's and quality parts what the big deal? Why does it ruffle your feathers of bad?
Your Nova is a killer ride. You built it on a budget. You built it yourself. Take pride in that. Be the exception to the rule.
Just dont expect everyone else to have to tools and know how to pull it off the way you did. Thats where alot of the $ Savings $ you speak of come from.
Around here if you want big numbers and low ET you pay to play. You dont get a thrown together combination of parts hoping it will work.
If people are willing to pay for proven combo's and quality parts what the big deal? Why does it ruffle your feathers of bad?
Your Nova is a killer ride. You built it on a budget. You built it yourself. Take pride in that. Be the exception to the rule.
Just dont expect everyone else to have to tools and know how to pull it off the way you did. Thats where alot of the $ Savings $ you speak of come from.
While people need to make money yes, I just dont like people taking advantage of other people with less knowledge. I dont mind the high dollar kits, what I dont like is people saying that they are better only because they cost more.. And since they cost more they must be better. Im talking significant price differences....not budget build stuff.
What is reliable? what is the definition of that? How does an item that cost more earn the name "reliable"?
My Nova is pretty hacked together with a lot of mismatched parts that were laying around. What can I say? Im a cheap ***...lol.
Thus I know exactly what it would take to do whatever.
Fuel rails for instance....Edelbrock sells the billet rails for $79. out of mail order catalogs. Sponsors on here (race shops) sell them for twice that and they are the same thing. What is the significant difference? None. And why the significant price difference? ? ? Because a sponsor proved they can work on a 8 second car and edelbrock hasnt proved anything? And people buy the expensive ones because they are proven?
11-20-2008, 01:37 PM
#31
So all that you have proven is that you can Order parts. You can weld. You sell your time very cheap. You must do all this from Home. So you have no overhead.
Welding shops around here run $60+ an hour. Garages around here run $60+ an Hour. Chassis shop around here run $80+ and hour. Paint shops around here Charge $4000+ for a quality paint job.
You pay for skill. Quality parts. The know how to to a job and do it right.
You compare your build prices to Businesses. We have Lease payments. Utility payments. Advertising payments. Among other expenses asscosted with running a business.
Business make a profit. No one forces anybody to buy anything.
Whats so hard to understand about all this? We are all happy that you build your own setups cheap. Good job. Your Nova is respectable in my Book. I am impressed with it.
My sole point is that shops do this for a living. They do it to make money. They set pricing. They take orders. The fill them. People are willing to pay or they go else where.
You have beat this into the ground.
Welding shops around here run $60+ an hour. Garages around here run $60+ an Hour. Chassis shop around here run $80+ and hour. Paint shops around here Charge $4000+ for a quality paint job.
You pay for skill. Quality parts. The know how to to a job and do it right.
You compare your build prices to Businesses. We have Lease payments. Utility payments. Advertising payments. Among other expenses asscosted with running a business.
Business make a profit. No one forces anybody to buy anything.
Whats so hard to understand about all this? We are all happy that you build your own setups cheap. Good job. Your Nova is respectable in my Book. I am impressed with it.
My sole point is that shops do this for a living. They do it to make money. They set pricing. They take orders. The fill them. People are willing to pay or they go else where.
You have beat this into the ground.
11-20-2008, 01:40 PM
#32
What is reliable? what is the definition of that? How does an item that cost more earn the name "reliable"?
Fuel rails for instance....Edelbrock sells the billet rails for $79. out of mail order catalogs. Sponsors on here (race shops) sell them for twice that and they are the same thing. What is the significant difference? None. And why the significant price difference? ? ? Because a sponsor proved they can work on a 8 second car and edelbrock hasnt proved anything? And people buy the expensive ones because they are proven?
I completely agree with you on the Fuel rails.
It just boils down to mark up and profit margins.
Big shops need big profits to make end meet.
Small shop can do it cheaper and survive comfotably.
Established shops with multiple lines can lose money on certain items due to what they make on others.
11-20-2008, 02:07 PM
#33
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You forgot to add the cost of tools, welding machine, and work area into you turbo budget. I don't have the things to build my kit. It was cheaper for me to buy the kit.
11-20-2008, 02:20 PM
#34
So all that you have proven is that you can Order parts. You can weld. You sell your time very cheap. You must do all this from Home. So you have no overhead.
Welding shops around here run $60+ an hour. Garages around here run $60+ an Hour. Chassis shop around here run $80+ and hour. Paint shops around here Charge $4000+ for a quality paint job.
You pay for skill. Quality parts. The know how to to a job and do it right.
You compare your build prices to Businesses. We have Lease payments. Utility payments. Advertising payments. Among other expenses asscosted with running a business.
Business make a profit. No one forces anybody to buy anything.
Whats so hard to understand about all this? We are all happy that you build your own setups cheap. Good job. Your Nova is respectable in my Book. I am impressed with it.
My sole point is that shops do this for a living. They do it to make money. They set pricing. They take orders. The fill them. People are willing to pay or they go else where.
You have beat this into the ground.
Welding shops around here run $60+ an hour. Garages around here run $60+ an Hour. Chassis shop around here run $80+ and hour. Paint shops around here Charge $4000+ for a quality paint job.
You pay for skill. Quality parts. The know how to to a job and do it right.
You compare your build prices to Businesses. We have Lease payments. Utility payments. Advertising payments. Among other expenses asscosted with running a business.
Business make a profit. No one forces anybody to buy anything.
Whats so hard to understand about all this? We are all happy that you build your own setups cheap. Good job. Your Nova is respectable in my Book. I am impressed with it.
My sole point is that shops do this for a living. They do it to make money. They set pricing. They take orders. The fill them. People are willing to pay or they go else where.
You have beat this into the ground.
My old job I took my engine to work and built the headers and hot side piping on it. Materials averaged about $300. All stainless. Labor being the first of its kind was about 8 hrs into it all. I know what material costs, I know what welding rates and times are. So $60. an hour is $480. + material round that to $800. for a full tubular header setup and hotside. Where do places get $2k for hotsides from? ...and above? $1k tax? I used to pipe natural gas compressor stations.. Ive worked with some S...L...O...W people....that take 10 hours to do 1 hour jobs. So yea I can see how people milk stuff out. Basically it boils down to the problem of the entire society.... we americans dont want to do any work and then charge up the a$$ for what little we do. People wonder why GM is in trouble...or all of the big 3.
11-20-2008, 02:37 PM
#35
You literally summed it up right there. You just didnt see it. Labor rates. Profit margins. Overhead. R&D cost money. That money will get abosorbed in the price of the kits.
We all know that a set of SS Turbo headers can be built for $500. We all know that unless you are gonna do it yourself you wont buy a set of a LS1 F-body for that. I dont have a problem telling anyone that I wont build a set for less than $1500. I have built several sets too. A ending with Happy customers. Thats all that matters to me.
I am done with this thread.
We all know that a set of SS Turbo headers can be built for $500. We all know that unless you are gonna do it yourself you wont buy a set of a LS1 F-body for that. I dont have a problem telling anyone that I wont build a set for less than $1500. I have built several sets too. A ending with Happy customers. Thats all that matters to me.
I am done with this thread.
11-20-2008, 06:07 PM
#37
11-20-2008, 07:15 PM
#39
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this post has me adding up all the parts of my turbo build and i don't like it
I built the entire setup in my garage and would guess i have about 6000 in the kit and stuff to go with it....10k might be possible if you did EVERYTHING yourself
on the welder note i would skip the mig and by a cheap tig like the econotig from miller....since i got the tig ive used my mig like twice.
I built the entire setup in my garage and would guess i have about 6000 in the kit and stuff to go with it....10k might be possible if you did EVERYTHING yourself
on the welder note i would skip the mig and by a cheap tig like the econotig from miller....since i got the tig ive used my mig like twice.
11-20-2008, 08:27 PM
#40
Its really not as complicated as you think.