1320

iTrader: (6)

Since half of us ar old turbo buick junkies, Ill throw this out.

On my GN (10 sec car) I measured 300 post turbo(at the edge of teh compressor housing), and 150 post intercooler. That was 19 psi, in 100 degree heat with a pte front mount intercooler. No water/or meth.

Sprying pre turbo doesnt really matter, the effects are not to the turbo, but to the intake charge post turbo. Id bet you couldnt tell the difference if you placed the nozzle just post turbo.....instead of how most post turbo placement is in front of teh tb.

The heat is sucked out better, if you find the hottest spot. I d guess its on top of teh valve but it could be in the compressor housing. That would be pretty hard to measure probably.

Grr

iTrader: (2)

agreed it will have the largest effect at the hottest point. But what works so good about doing just a little meth pre-compressor is dropping the ambient air temp, therefore making the air going into the compressor much more dense and making the compressor alot more efficient.

BoostnTBSS

iTrader: (-1)

yes on our old turbo buick we ran twin stock turbos to 20 psi with no IC and the intake would frost up on a 90+ deg day... alot of people shook there heads at how fast the car was and how it was built.... it just worked great and that was with gas... i think it was from compressing the octane from a liquid to a gas form with the turbo. on the street the carb would freeze up on cold 60deg days...

kbracing96

iTrader: (25)

The cooling affect is from when a liquid goes from a solid state to a gas state, it absorbs heat in the process. Water is actually better at heat absorption then methanol, but requires more pressure to turn from liquid to gas, so you don't see as much of a temp reduction in the intake tube as it does more of its mater state changing and heat absorption in the cylinder it's self. Were methanol, want to be a gas pretty bad, so it vaporizes in the intake much quicker. That's what gives you frosty intake runners

BoostnTBSS

iTrader: (-1)

i just sprayed strait pump gas and it frosted up real well

CamTom12

iTrader: (1)

So BoostnTBSS, you just ran straight pump gas pre-turbo?

I'm building a turbo set-up for street use and had been toying around with the idea of running water pre-turbo instead of an A/A... I already have a system in place that stores and pressurizes fuel...

hmmm....

BoostnTBSS

iTrader: (-1)

yes strait gas 110 octane

Adam Connell

I did a whole bunch of research a few years ago about doing this on my Grand National.

I am heavily considering doing it this year. I am planning on running a rather exotic setup. I am going to run a 50 "wet" shot that uses a methanol system as the supplemental fuel. I am also going to run a stand alone pre-turbo meth/water combo that is not associated with the fuel/post turbo meth/nitrous. So basically two separate Alky systems. The pre-turbo unit will most likely be a very simple linear unit. With the post turbo being a progressive style.

All in all I am planning on eliminating the intercooler by doing this... My plan is to have an M2 or M3 nozzle pre-turbo, then a Alky Control progressive system post turbo, and the 50 shot either in the plenum or just prior to the TB with a secondary alky nozzle tied to the 50 shot.

I want to make sure all of the meth atomizes, so I am going to set it back a few inches from the nitrous to make sure it's full cooling potential is used, and then slam it with the spray for the final cooling shot.

This will be on my street car, and I am fairly confident that it will run like a beast! The nitrous system will be either TPS activated or full throttle activated.

I have a very strong feeling that with enough meth in the right places, there is no need for an intercooler. I am positive that the 50 shot will decrease that need as well. When it's all tuned it should be a brutally consistent car since I can leave off foot brake and will not have heat soak issues.

This will all be done one system at a time, and I will most likely start with the pre-turbo system. Then the regular Alky, and then the nitrous. Tuning them all at once would be a nightmare.

What I really would like to do is run a dual fuel system and run the car on straight 87 and have the secondary system be boost activated to switch to 100% methanol. Guess E85 will have to do for now...

_steve_

For spraying into the turbo's compressor, what is the ideal method for pushing the methanol? I already have a system in place spraying into the TB using a Shurflo pump, would another pump work pre-turbo?

Just woried about lack of atomization before psi builds up and when spray stop's.

shawn_c992001

Would this idea of spraying meth before the turbo work on a MAF equipped engine?

Adam Connell

Yes, It would work with a MAF. The ideal setup is multiple VERY small nozzles under very high pressure. These nozzles need to be somewhere around 6 to 8in before the turbo and need to be spraying directly at the compressor wheel.

IM still working on this. I am a mechanical engineering student, and let me just say it WORKS... My professors agree. The actual reason why it works is not the same way post turbo alky injection works, there is a totally different set of laws at work that 99% of people including myself have a hard time comprehending.

-Pre turbo injection is basically messing with Fluid properties, thermodynamics, and a lot of other very scientific stuff.
-Post turbo cooling is just using the detonation resistance of meth combined with evaporative cooling.

For Pre turbo injection, a 50/50 water/methanol mix would be ideal due to the properties of both liquids. Post turbo I would only spray methanol.

This article does an excellent job of explaining this concept in a way that anyone can understand: I HIGHLY recommend you read it before doing anything pre-turbo.

http://www.maxxtorque.com/pre-turbo-water-injection

say it's "worthless" "doesnt work" or anything else at this point to discredit pre turbo injection is just ignorant... This stuff has been around since WWII, and the technology is finally catching up to make this a marketable affordable application for use by the general public.

Feel free to disagree... but I have yet to see anyone who's actually tried it say it doesnt work...

shawn_c992001

Where could a guy find some very small nozzles to put into the intake tract? Could I use my existing pump and just "T" off of the supply line to run a pre-turbo injection?

_steve_

Snow performance or labonte motorsports carry nozzles.

I'm just going to place a 60ml/min nozzle with a seperate pump. I already have a 675ml/min nozzle spray system at TB. The pre-turbo system will active via pump ground through a WOT switch and a HOBBS switch (in series) set to about 22 psi boost

moehorsepower

iTrader: (3)

I am going from SC to Turbo, So spraying pre turbo is to cool the incoming charge correct? which will in sense also cool the turbo housing right? Then why do they say to install turbo blankets, I know one is to keep under hood temps low but also it is said to keep the temps inside the turbo for faster spool time??
I am thinking of doing a meth injection but this sounds interesting...

wagonwes

You want the turbine side hot, to keep exhaust velocity up. You want the compressor side cold, because the air is more dense and it makes more power.

cause4panic

iTrader: (2)

Does the extra mass / density raise the efficency of the compressor?

edit: when trying to push a stock turbo to its limits

slow67

iTrader: (2)

Its supposed to......

Mr.Big

NO... do NOT spray methanol before the MAF...

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

what kind of pump/nozzle setup were u using to spray fuel into the compressor housing? psi? lines material?

shawn_c992001

Ok one says yes and one says no....what's wrong here?

By the time it got sprayed into the turbo and made it to the MAF sensor would it not be vapor?