l92 heads + boost
I make almost 800whp with my L92 and gm 5 layer gaskets. I use arp head studs torqued to 80. I don't know why mine don't push water at 15psi but they have held up over a year. I also have pretty low compression 9:0:1 and I don't get any detonation with my meth setup so that may be a contributing factor. I also run a centifugal charger and not a turbo. It doesn't build boost as quickly, but that is just conjecture as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uvmN...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uvmN...eature=related
No porting, and no extreme cams? This is a 100% street car that is daily driven, and makes good power so far. (10.6 @ 136 with bad traction) Turning up the boost from 9-11 lbs netted no power increase (With a tune also of course) Looking at my setup, the only obvious bottleneck is the lack of flow in my heads.
I will hold off on changing heads to these due to the reccomendations against them. Guess Im just gonna have to be happy with the car as is, and move on to my fast car again..
I will hold off on changing heads to these due to the reccomendations against them. Guess Im just gonna have to be happy with the car as is, and move on to my fast car again..
Yea some thing not right here ? Whats your RWHP now with mods ?
My Stock LS2 no cams /no port work all stock DID 600RWHP at 5k rpms at 13 psi. run was cut short because of fuel pressure drop. but my tuner says he pretty sure it would have hit 650RWHP if i didnt lose fuel
Other ls2 220/224 cam /springs /pushrods ported ls2 intake Did 758RWHP with 16-17psi
Last edited by BigRich954RR; Aug 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM.
Yea some thing not right here ? Whats your RWHP now with mods ?
My Stock LS2 no cams /no port work all stock DID 600RWHP at 5k rpms at 13 psi. run was cut short because of fuel pressure drop. but my tuner says he pretty sure it would have hit 650RWHP if i didnt lose fuel
Other ls2 220/224 cam /springs /pushrods ported ls2 intake Did 758RWHP with 16-17psi
My Stock LS2 no cams /no port work all stock DID 600RWHP at 5k rpms at 13 psi. run was cut short because of fuel pressure drop. but my tuner says he pretty sure it would have hit 650RWHP if i didnt lose fuel
Other ls2 220/224 cam /springs /pushrods ported ls2 intake Did 758RWHP with 16-17psi
Im using a stock 243 head/intake combo. Do the ls2 heads/intake out flow mine? At 16-17 psi I could probably make the same power as you did, but I really don't want to wind my blower out like that. Im still using a 6 rib also, so I wouldnt be able to support that kind of boost anyways.
Is it possible that I am limited by my blower, and not my heads? I'm still waiting for someone to chime in that has actual STOCK 243s and makes over 700rwhp on 91 pump gas without a track only setup...
At 9lbs I make significantly more power than you did at 13. There is no exhaust backpressure issue and the tune was done on the dyno by a professional.
Im using a stock 243 head/intake combo. Do the ls2 heads/intake out flow mine? At 16-17 psi I could probably make the same power as you did, but I really don't want to wind my blower out like that. Im still using a 6 rib also, so I wouldnt be able to support that kind of boost anyways.
Is it possible that I am limited by my blower, and not my heads? I'm still waiting for someone to chime in that has actual STOCK 243s and makes over 700rwhp on 91 pump gas without a track only setup...
Im using a stock 243 head/intake combo. Do the ls2 heads/intake out flow mine? At 16-17 psi I could probably make the same power as you did, but I really don't want to wind my blower out like that. Im still using a 6 rib also, so I wouldnt be able to support that kind of boost anyways.
Is it possible that I am limited by my blower, and not my heads? I'm still waiting for someone to chime in that has actual STOCK 243s and makes over 700rwhp on 91 pump gas without a track only setup...
OK i Think i might understand all LS2 came with 243 heads with is a ls2 intake
What supercharger do you have ?
Whats your HP and mods now ?
Whats your fuel injectors ?
Are you sure the Shop you dyno at didnt make the numbers look higher then they are ? does there dyno read high?
Last edited by BigRich954RR; Aug 4, 2009 at 02:39 PM.
LS2 heads are the same as Ls6? Sorry, didn't even think about that. I have "heavy" IRS as well.. Did you do the 758 at 16psi on PUMP gas? No meth, just 91? Im not interested in a meth setup or running anything more than 91. If I can't drive my car 500+ miles without worries on it, its no good to me..
D1sc procharger, andy's intercooler kit. LS2 bottom end, and a completely stock ls6 top end. Running 1 3/4" headers, no cats, stock titanium catback. (Might be a bit of an exhaust limitation, but Ive seen guys making way more on it)
Ls6 is little better then LS2 758 was with pump and meth there no way to make that kind of power on pump with stock compression I can drive about 1000miles before i need to fill my meth tank but i run a 4 gal tank but i also run 2 huge nozzles DD the car i could go a few months with out filling.
At this power level your way passed safe level of stock shortblock parts you know this right?
At this power level your way passed safe level of stock shortblock parts you know this right?
Last edited by BigRich954RR; Aug 4, 2009 at 02:56 PM.
Ls6 is little better then LS2 758 was with pump and meth there no way to make that kind of power on pump with stock compression I can drive about 1000miles before i need to fill my meth tank but i run a 4 gal tank but i also run 2 huge nozzles DD the car i could go a few months with out filling.
At this power level your way passed safe level of stock shortblock parts you know this right ?
At this power level your way passed safe level of stock shortblock parts you know this right ?
I really personally hate meth injection, just cause I see it fail so many times and I'm incredibly forgetful so knowing me Id get stuck without any meth on the way to LA and some unsuspecting viper would want to race me. If i put meth on and bumped up boost to 15+ lbs I would probably make 750+ but I just don't trust that stuff... Also my CR is 9.8:1 or so, not stock.
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Verdad Gallardo LOL there alot of little things you left out
What cam you runing ?
What was Your A/F on the dyno run?
Im thinking you didnt pick up power going from 9 to 11 psi because you were knocking the engine on 91 pump. but i cant be sure
You need to find a few people with on here with 9.8 compression and see where they get knocking ? But you need to know air temps car temps and with pump somtimes you just get a weaker gas then others. Pump gas in the winter is weaker then in the summer time too
The highest ive seen with just pump 93 was +900RWHP but the compression was 8. i think
What cam you runing ?
What was Your A/F on the dyno run?
Im thinking you didnt pick up power going from 9 to 11 psi because you were knocking the engine on 91 pump. but i cant be sure
You need to find a few people with on here with 9.8 compression and see where they get knocking ? But you need to know air temps car temps and with pump somtimes you just get a weaker gas then others. Pump gas in the winter is weaker then in the summer time too
The highest ive seen with just pump 93 was +900RWHP but the compression was 8. i think
LOL there alot of little things you left out
What cam you runing ?
What was Your A/F on the dyno run?
Im thinking you didnt pick up power going from 9 to 11 psi because you were knocking the engine on 91 pump. but i cant be sure
You need to find a few people with on here with 9.8 compression and see where they get knocking ? But you need to know air temps car temps and with pump somtimes you just get a weaker gas then others. Pump gas in the winter is weaker then in the summer time too
The highest ive seen with just pump 93 was +900RWHP but the compression was 8. i think
What cam you runing ?
What was Your A/F on the dyno run?
Im thinking you didnt pick up power going from 9 to 11 psi because you were knocking the engine on 91 pump. but i cant be sure
You need to find a few people with on here with 9.8 compression and see where they get knocking ? But you need to know air temps car temps and with pump somtimes you just get a weaker gas then others. Pump gas in the winter is weaker then in the summer time too
The highest ive seen with just pump 93 was +900RWHP but the compression was 8. i think
The A/F before and after (9 and 11psi) were tuned to identical curves, so theoretically it shouldnt be a tune issue. There was no knocking or pinging on the dyno and we played around with timing with no positive power results.
A/F was around 12.2 I believe, I would have to ask my tuner and hes occupied at the moment on AIM lol. The cam is a 232/238 116+2. Its a custom blower cam. I don't like to talk about my HP numbers much.
The A/F before and after (9 and 11psi) were tuned to identical curves, so theoretically it shouldnt be a tune issue. There was no knocking or pinging on the dyno and we played around with timing with no positive power results.
The A/F before and after (9 and 11psi) were tuned to identical curves, so theoretically it shouldnt be a tune issue. There was no knocking or pinging on the dyno and we played around with timing with no positive power results.
His dyno is not a high reader, and I know for a fact he doesn't pad numbers. (Very good friend, known his since 01, and he does very good builds)
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I'm no expert by any means and have no personal experience unlike Vee8. A close friend of mine did make 640ish at the wheels through a powerglide w/stock l92's on a 110,xxx+ mile short block with a gt47-80. and didn't push water.
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The semi permanent mold castings are better than the sand castings for all intensive purposes. If you want to spend high dollar on aftermarket, then so be it. WCCH is getting 400+ cfm out of thier LS7 castings. Your best money will be spent on good reliable worked GM castings and knowledgable camming for a street engine.
I'll hide and watch. Depends on how soon you want your ride back on the road on a budget like you have.
Personally, I'd go with LS3 or LS7 castings... WCCH worked.
I'll hide and watch. Depends on how soon you want your ride back on the road on a budget like you have.
Personally, I'd go with LS3 or LS7 castings... WCCH worked.
The semi permanent mold castings are better than the sand castings for all intensive purposes. If you want to spend high dollar on aftermarket, then so be it. WCCH is getting 400+ cfm out of thier LS7 castings. Your best money will be spent on good reliable worked GM castings and knowledgable camming for a street engine.
I'll hide and watch. Depends on how soon you want your ride back on the road on a budget like you have.
Personally, I'd go with LS3 or LS7 castings... WCCH worked.
I'll hide and watch. Depends on how soon you want your ride back on the road on a budget like you have.
Personally, I'd go with LS3 or LS7 castings... WCCH worked.
But....
There just is not enough meat in the head, to withstand high pressure.
I will say it again, if you run these on a boosted application, and keep the hp levels and boost psi in check, they will work ok. It is very tempting on a turbo car to dial up more boost, especially if you have a bottom end that will take it. You will end up with problems with head gasket sealing long before you would with even a mediocre set of aftermarket heads.
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From: Southern Colorado Front Range
It is not an airflow issue. My L92's were Stage 2 WCCH heads, the CNC work was excellent. Richard did an outstanding job on that program. Could be one of the reasons I was able to make such great power with relatively low boost.
But....
There just is not enough meat in the head, to withstand high pressure.
I will say it again, if you run these on a boosted application, and keep the hp levels and boost psi in check, they will work ok. It is very tempting on a turbo car to dial up more boost, especially if you have a bottom end that will take it. You will end up with problems with head gasket sealing long before you would with even a mediocre set of aftermarket heads.
But....
There just is not enough meat in the head, to withstand high pressure.
I will say it again, if you run these on a boosted application, and keep the hp levels and boost psi in check, they will work ok. It is very tempting on a turbo car to dial up more boost, especially if you have a bottom end that will take it. You will end up with problems with head gasket sealing long before you would with even a mediocre set of aftermarket heads.
What part of WCCH LS7's are budget? Even if you were referring to the WCCH L92's, by the time you add up the necessary parts for the swap, you can pick up a set of aftermarkets.
I agree that some of the later LS3 and LS9 casting processes, are better then the early L92's like I had, they still can't hold a candle to a set of good aftermarket thick deck castings.
It sounds like the OP has some lofty hp goals, way beyond the limits of the GM heads.
Even with ARP studs, proper deck RA and LS9 head gaskets, mine lifted.
My opinion has been stated with facts that show that when taken to 1000hp, GM castings could not keep up for me. Some people might be ok for a little while, but not long enough to be considered safe.
To each his own, and everyone can make their own decision on what to use, but the only reason I have fought my case, is it was so frustrating to be held back by the GM castings. I wish I would have spent just a little bit more money (like a few hundred dollars) to not have these problems. I am trying to guide people away from the issues I have had.
I agree that some of the later LS3 and LS9 casting processes, are better then the early L92's like I had, they still can't hold a candle to a set of good aftermarket thick deck castings.
It sounds like the OP has some lofty hp goals, way beyond the limits of the GM heads.
Even with ARP studs, proper deck RA and LS9 head gaskets, mine lifted.
My opinion has been stated with facts that show that when taken to 1000hp, GM castings could not keep up for me. Some people might be ok for a little while, but not long enough to be considered safe.
To each his own, and everyone can make their own decision on what to use, but the only reason I have fought my case, is it was so frustrating to be held back by the GM castings. I wish I would have spent just a little bit more money (like a few hundred dollars) to not have these problems. I am trying to guide people away from the issues I have had.
The semi permanent mold castings are better than the sand castings for all intensive purposes. If you want to spend high dollar on aftermarket, then so be it. WCCH is getting 400+ cfm out of thier LS7 castings. Your best money will be spent on good reliable worked GM castings and knowledgable camming for a street engine.
I'll hide and watch. Depends on how soon you want your ride back on the road on a budget like you have.
Personally, I'd go with LS3 or LS7 castings... WCCH worked.
I'll hide and watch. Depends on how soon you want your ride back on the road on a budget like you have.
Personally, I'd go with LS3 or LS7 castings... WCCH worked.
If I do heads Ill just go big I guess. I think Im just gonna leave this car as is since it works perfect. Thank you guys for the input, I really appreciate it. Its nice when a community is there to help you think about a build by giving real world info.
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From: Southern Colorado Front Range
What part of WCCH LS7's are budget? Even if you were referring to the WCCH L92's, by the time you add up the necessary parts for the swap, you can pick up a set of aftermarkets.
I agree that some of the later LS3 and LS9 casting processes, are better then the early L92's like I had, they still can't hold a candle to a set of good aftermarket thick deck castings.
It sounds like the OP has some lofty hp goals, way beyond the limits of the GM heads.
Even with ARP studs, proper deck RA and LS9 head gaskets, mine lifted.
My opinion has been stated with facts that show that when taken to 1000hp, GM castings could not keep up for me. Some people might be ok for a little while, but not long enough to be considered safe.
To each his own, and everyone can make their own decision on what to use, but the only reason I have fought my case, is it was so frustrating to be held back by the GM castings. I wish I would have spent just a little bit more money (like a few hundred dollars) to not have these problems. I am trying to guide people away from the issues I have had.
I agree that some of the later LS3 and LS9 casting processes, are better then the early L92's like I had, they still can't hold a candle to a set of good aftermarket thick deck castings.
It sounds like the OP has some lofty hp goals, way beyond the limits of the GM heads.
Even with ARP studs, proper deck RA and LS9 head gaskets, mine lifted.
My opinion has been stated with facts that show that when taken to 1000hp, GM castings could not keep up for me. Some people might be ok for a little while, but not long enough to be considered safe.
To each his own, and everyone can make their own decision on what to use, but the only reason I have fought my case, is it was so frustrating to be held back by the GM castings. I wish I would have spent just a little bit more money (like a few hundred dollars) to not have these problems. I am trying to guide people away from the issues I have had.
But I understand what you are saying. I don't think the op really wants a 1000+hp engine either. It takes WAY more money, time, research, and maintenance to keep that kind of hardware than it is worth to me and most other people I know. You have to REALLY want it bad.
Me? The only reason I'd build a 1000hp engine is so that I could push 800hp all day long. But that's just Corey logic..
