Water/Alky Injection ... Got Questions
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Water/Alky Injection ... Got Questions Where is the mixture best injected, before or after turbo? How much does it drop in temperature does different mixtures affect the pressurized air? How does it compare to spraying liquid nitrous, nitrogen, or CO2 in front of the air-to-air intercooler? Can this make a 347cid 9:1CR motor with 20psi of boost from a T76 and very good tuning run on pump gas with maybe a octane booster? How much of the mixture does it use on boost(typically)? What kind of alcohol does it use? Where can you get the different types? Fill in the blanks if I left anything out?
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From: Downers Grove,IL
I'll try and answer a few of your questions.
Inject after the turbo if using an intercooler or it might condense out in the intercooler creating big problems.Just about everybody injects after the turbo.
However in the gas turbine and centrifugal compressor industriy ,it(water) is injected pre compressor in a fogged state at pressures as high as 3000psi.
Also you need very fine atomization to avoid impeller wear if injected pre turbo. I am taking a stab at this type of system but it requires some out of the ordinary parts and I don't use an intercooler.
Pure methanol will give the best charge cooling and power. Ethanol or denatured is Ok and isopropyl has NO place in a performance engine depsite being used by a lot of people. Probably because they think alcohol is alcohol which it is NOT.
Water cools combustion temps mainly and helps avoid detonation and will be a tradeoff in power production.
Typical flow rates used can vary from 5 to 25+GPH depending on the situation.
To run these systems right you don't tune a motor and then just dump it on top. It becomes part of the tuneup.
Steve
Inject after the turbo if using an intercooler or it might condense out in the intercooler creating big problems.Just about everybody injects after the turbo.
However in the gas turbine and centrifugal compressor industriy ,it(water) is injected pre compressor in a fogged state at pressures as high as 3000psi.
Also you need very fine atomization to avoid impeller wear if injected pre turbo. I am taking a stab at this type of system but it requires some out of the ordinary parts and I don't use an intercooler.
Pure methanol will give the best charge cooling and power. Ethanol or denatured is Ok and isopropyl has NO place in a performance engine depsite being used by a lot of people. Probably because they think alcohol is alcohol which it is NOT.
Water cools combustion temps mainly and helps avoid detonation and will be a tradeoff in power production.
Typical flow rates used can vary from 5 to 25+GPH depending on the situation.
To run these systems right you don't tune a motor and then just dump it on top. It becomes part of the tuneup.
Steve
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From: Deep in the seedy underworld of Koonerville
Hey Steve
I saw in the other post you are doing up a new setup only using boost pressure to atomize the methanol. What type of nozzle are you going to use that will atomize the meth at such low relative pressures? That sounds like a VERY simple setup to make and would have a variable flow based on boost pressure.
I imagine it only requires a tank, siphon tube that picks up from the bottom of the tank and a pressure feed at the top? Oh and the nozzle.
Sorry Gold for semi hijacking this thread.
I saw in the other post you are doing up a new setup only using boost pressure to atomize the methanol. What type of nozzle are you going to use that will atomize the meth at such low relative pressures? That sounds like a VERY simple setup to make and would have a variable flow based on boost pressure.
I imagine it only requires a tank, siphon tube that picks up from the bottom of the tank and a pressure feed at the top? Oh and the nozzle.
Sorry Gold for semi hijacking this thread.
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From: Las Cruces, NM
You don't need a real elaborate system or extremely high pressure to get a very atomized stream. Two companies BETE and Spraying Systems Co. For very fine atomization you will need a nozzle that uses a gas (like air) injected into the stream. Some the atomization nozzles work with as little as 2 psi on the water about 10 psi on the air. For a fog type system you can do that without the added air mixing.
Gary
Gary
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From: Downers Grove,IL
I'll be using a external mix air mist nozzle from lechler with total liquid flow regulated by a jet as the nozzle will flow 16GPH at only 5 psi. The nozzle uses only 6cfm of air at 20psi so your not robbing the motor of any precious boost.
I already bench tested the system with a cheaply built air mixing nozzle and was amazed how well it atomized by only 5psi on both liquid/air. By 13psi it was better than my shurflow/misting nozzle at 140psi at the same flow rates.
This new lechler nozzle should work even better and sells for around 40$.
I'm just waiting for it to come in.
A teflon seated solenoid to handle pure methanol for positive on/off flow control activated by a hobbs switch and a small pressure tank I built.
Big 3/8" pressure tap to the tank from the blower for instant pressure and flow.
Pros-
Possibly the ultimate method in atomizing the methanol which is important for charge cooling and cylinder distribution.
no need for a pump or pump controller and associated wiring.
no high pressure lines.
Good progressive flow with rising boost.
Simple as pie in operation.
Only drawbacks I can see are,
1, need a small underhood tank capable of handling cyclic pressures.
2, really should not inject pre intercooler
3, a turbo with a flat boost curve looses the progressive fluid flow nature of a rising boost curve.
So it is not for everybody.
here is a good nozzle source- http://www.lechlerusa.com/shop/index.asp
Steve
I already bench tested the system with a cheaply built air mixing nozzle and was amazed how well it atomized by only 5psi on both liquid/air. By 13psi it was better than my shurflow/misting nozzle at 140psi at the same flow rates.
This new lechler nozzle should work even better and sells for around 40$.
I'm just waiting for it to come in.
A teflon seated solenoid to handle pure methanol for positive on/off flow control activated by a hobbs switch and a small pressure tank I built.
Big 3/8" pressure tap to the tank from the blower for instant pressure and flow.
Pros-
Possibly the ultimate method in atomizing the methanol which is important for charge cooling and cylinder distribution.
no need for a pump or pump controller and associated wiring.
no high pressure lines.
Good progressive flow with rising boost.
Simple as pie in operation.
Only drawbacks I can see are,
1, need a small underhood tank capable of handling cyclic pressures.
2, really should not inject pre intercooler
3, a turbo with a flat boost curve looses the progressive fluid flow nature of a rising boost curve.
So it is not for everybody.
here is a good nozzle source- http://www.lechlerusa.com/shop/index.asp
Steve
the SMC kit, isnt that expensive, if you go on the buick boards you can find them used sometimes.
Also why hasnt anyone on here tried propane injection? It works the same as alky just cant adjust pump speed only flow rate??
thaks
ed
Also why hasnt anyone on here tried propane injection? It works the same as alky just cant adjust pump speed only flow rate??
thaks
ed
