Procharger guys (Interesting read)
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
uhh, i don't think that is the idea. The point is to create a certain boost pressure at a lower RPM and hold it steady or control it via some input (like speed or RPM). There are a million factors that come into play here that could end up resulting in better overall performance and versatility.
I think you guys are being a little closed minded about this. Sure, it has some efficiency issues and some basic calculations can prove that, but I've seen calculations fail many times in the real world. The reason is related to missing dimensions to the calculation. It is very easy to look at one side and miss one of the 500 other factors that impact the overall system. Remember, the best performance does not always come from the highest peak power levels. Also, fluid dynamics are crazy and even the most experienced engineer focusing on the discipline will tell you that little things can throw you so far off that you end up being completely off in the practical example. I'm not saying that this type of setup could produce more power on the dyno...(pretty much anyone can figure that out) but I do think it is possible to end up with a better performing car that is more versatile with a better power curve (not for everyone, but this could be just the ticket for some people).
The only reason I think this has some potential is the fact that somebody has done it and has had good results. It may be a total waste of time and money, but I might give it a try just for fun. Again, this is all for fun (we are not saving lives or bettering the world here).
I think you guys are being a little closed minded about this. Sure, it has some efficiency issues and some basic calculations can prove that, but I've seen calculations fail many times in the real world. The reason is related to missing dimensions to the calculation. It is very easy to look at one side and miss one of the 500 other factors that impact the overall system. Remember, the best performance does not always come from the highest peak power levels. Also, fluid dynamics are crazy and even the most experienced engineer focusing on the discipline will tell you that little things can throw you so far off that you end up being completely off in the practical example. I'm not saying that this type of setup could produce more power on the dyno...(pretty much anyone can figure that out) but I do think it is possible to end up with a better performing car that is more versatile with a better power curve (not for everyone, but this could be just the ticket for some people).
The only reason I think this has some potential is the fact that somebody has done it and has had good results. It may be a total waste of time and money, but I might give it a try just for fun. Again, this is all for fun (we are not saving lives or bettering the world here).
well said. there is no doubt in my mind that a setup like this will provide lower peak power levels than a standard system. However, I for one do not care about peak levels. Its area under the curve that determines the winner at the end of the track. If you can get to peak boost levels sooner in the rpm range and hold it there, that means you will have more area under the curve. Even though it may not be a dyno queen, it will still have a good showing at the track.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
From: Downers Grove,IL
throttling the inlet of the blower is the way to go. That's how it's done with industrial blowers as well.
I ran a pre blower throttle blade all last summer. Not to limit boost but to control the amount of air being pushed at cruise. Both the pre blower Throttle blade and the T.B. on the intake opened and closed simultaneously with the gas pedal.
With that setup you don't even need a bypass valve.
Worked pretty good.
But one could easily limit how far the pre blower blade opens to limit boost output. Could do it either mechanically or with a stepper motor and controller.
Steve
I ran a pre blower throttle blade all last summer. Not to limit boost but to control the amount of air being pushed at cruise. Both the pre blower Throttle blade and the T.B. on the intake opened and closed simultaneously with the gas pedal.
With that setup you don't even need a bypass valve.
Worked pretty good.
But one could easily limit how far the pre blower blade opens to limit boost output. Could do it either mechanically or with a stepper motor and controller.
Steve
The numbers speak for themselves; engineering is engineering. If it doesn't add up on paper 99.9999% of the time it isn't going to add up in "real life".
The problem with 'real world' evaluations is that they are rarely backed up by any sort of legitimate proof that a substantial improvement has been made. Usually all you get is "and man is it fast now".
I'm not trying to pan the idea, because I do think it is a great concept, but I don't think you should regulate flow after the blower though. If you regulate flow prior to the blower its a win-win situation where you only get what you are working for.
FWIW, I am currently working on a compressor that takes 280,000 HP to drive. We regulate boost at the inlet
The problem with 'real world' evaluations is that they are rarely backed up by any sort of legitimate proof that a substantial improvement has been made. Usually all you get is "and man is it fast now".
I'm not trying to pan the idea, because I do think it is a great concept, but I don't think you should regulate flow after the blower though. If you regulate flow prior to the blower its a win-win situation where you only get what you are working for.
FWIW, I am currently working on a compressor that takes 280,000 HP to drive. We regulate boost at the inlet
Originally Posted by S_J_H
throttling the inlet of the blower is the way to go. That's how it's done with industrial blowers as well.
I ran a pre blower throttle blade all last summer. Not to limit boost but to control the amount of air being pushed at cruise. Both the pre blower Throttle blade and the T.B. on the intake opened and closed simultaneously with the gas pedal.
With that setup you don't even need a bypass valve.
Worked pretty good.
But one could easily limit how far the pre blower blade opens to limit boost output. Could do it either mechanically or with a stepper motor and controller.
Steve
I ran a pre blower throttle blade all last summer. Not to limit boost but to control the amount of air being pushed at cruise. Both the pre blower Throttle blade and the T.B. on the intake opened and closed simultaneously with the gas pedal.
With that setup you don't even need a bypass valve.
Worked pretty good.
But one could easily limit how far the pre blower blade opens to limit boost output. Could do it either mechanically or with a stepper motor and controller.
Steve
I would probably do something like this if I didn't like the Whoooosh sound so much when I let off the gas.
I might use the cutout idea to limit the air going into the blower and see where would that put me. I will ofcourse dyno my car with the 8psi setup and then upgrade to a 12lbs pulley and limit the boost by using a cutout to bleed off 4 psi or so. If i got different HP numbers while im running 8psi with the new setup then that proves NoGo theroy, but if it made the same numbers and better area under the curve then its good news for everyone with a SC. I heard bleeding off boost into the atmopshere could make the car run rough, is this true? Would it be better to make a return line taking the bleeded boost back into the intake?
Something like this example, http://homepages.tig.com.au/~robs/intake.htm
Something like this example, http://homepages.tig.com.au/~robs/intake.htm
That setup places the throttle body prior to the blower, like we have been saying.
You will only loose a significant amount of HP if you bleed the boost of AFTER the supercharger.
The setup that you have proposed should provide nearly identical numbers for the 8 and 12 psi belting.
You will only loose a significant amount of HP if you bleed the boost of AFTER the supercharger.
The setup that you have proposed should provide nearly identical numbers for the 8 and 12 psi belting.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by LSs1Power
I heard bleeding off boost into the atmopshere could make the car run rough, is this true? Would it be better to make a return line taking the bleeded boost back into the intake?
It is also not required if you are choking the air supply in front of the blower,
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,048
Likes: 12
From: Raleigh, NC
I did it this way:
Swapping from 6 PSI to 10 PSI in 5 minutes or Vice-Versa
My Inlet Restrictor experiment to use pump gas around town, but pull out the stops for a race!
http://www.blackls1ta.com/restrictor_experiment.htm
I was running at 10 PSI at stock compression and engine, which required TORCO or 100+ octane gasoline.
This netted me 6 PSI instantly and across the board. 93 Octane, but instant boost (SY3500 converter.) Not hi-tech, but it worked, and took me five minutes to swap out the section of pipe.
Swapping from 6 PSI to 10 PSI in 5 minutes or Vice-Versa
My Inlet Restrictor experiment to use pump gas around town, but pull out the stops for a race!
http://www.blackls1ta.com/restrictor_experiment.htm
I was running at 10 PSI at stock compression and engine, which required TORCO or 100+ octane gasoline.
This netted me 6 PSI instantly and across the board. 93 Octane, but instant boost (SY3500 converter.) Not hi-tech, but it worked, and took me five minutes to swap out the section of pipe.
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Originally Posted by Black LS1 T/A
You must have not really looked at the shape of the ducting or where I put it in the system. There's no way that is going anywhere. 
I looked, but i didnt get it.
Originally Posted by Black LS1 T/A
I put this:
Where I had put this:
Even that piece in the last photo couldn't get past the bubble in the sleeve.
Where I had put this:
Even that piece in the last photo couldn't get past the bubble in the sleeve.
Oh ok, i just understood what u did. It is going to be hard to adjust the amount of boost from inside the car though.