E85 or c16
Well, knock on wood I've been one of them so far. My carbed 418 sbf on nitrous was on E-98 and I never had an issue with it. Now my turbo LS setup is on pump E-85, and I just had one of my injectors out the other day because I changed out my fuel rails, and I didn't see anything like you posted on the tip of my injectors. Maybe I've been lucky?
Something like drum E98 isn't going to have a problem. And the additives that cause the goo may not have been used at the gas stations in your area. Unfortunately it was a problem in my area. Been dealing with it for about 9 years on many vehicles. IMO if you don't see the goo, you're golden and have a great supply.
Evey E85/C16 car I've tuned has benefitted from more timing than the previous E85 tune.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Jan 6, 2017 at 05:56 PM.
I was just reading something by Scott Clark, who teaches EFI tuning and says he tunes 3-7 LS combos a week. He says that a given boost level, say 20psi, E85 will want a degree or 2 more timing than the same combo on C16. This number is usually 17-18* on E85 and 16-17* on C16.
Every LS I come across, and it's about 3-7 per week now, wants very similar and specific timing numbers in boost. As long as IATs are under control and the fuel quality isn't the limiting factor, I always see very similar numbers. I.e. they want 17-18* at 20 psi on e85, and maybe 16-17* at 20 psi on c16 or other race gasolines.
That's ridiculous... Clear as day...
Research Octane Number | | Motor Octane Number | | R+M/2
ethanol...........118....................96....... ................107
regular gas .......92....................82................... .....87
E85 (summer)...113....................94.............. .........104
C16.................119.................117....... .................118
ethanol...........118....................96....... ................107
regular gas .......92....................82................... .....87
E85 (summer)...113....................94.............. .........104
C16.................119.................117....... .................118
I agree completely, but we were talking about a 1500hp setup with a limited fuel system. In this case C16 all the way IMO. I'd go dual fuel and cruise around on pump gas, then use the C16 in boost. Run a 2.5 gallon tank up front with a 4303 on it. Then use a ball valve setup at the track to supply the C16. It's cheap/easy.
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I'm just saying what my dyno guy and I talk about during our weekend get togethers. On the dyno, mainly 800+ Evo stuff, timing is similar and power is too between the two fuels
There trending now to full e98 and even full methanol on the half mile stuff there getting into
There trending now to full e98 and even full methanol on the half mile stuff there getting into
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E85 can take more timing in most cases because there is just a lot more fuel in the mix. Lean it out, even a half a point, and you will end up with ashtray pistons. The flame front speed increases muuuuch faster as E85 leans out compared to C16. So, if your fuel system is way over built, there are no fluctuations in AFR down track, and you are using barrel E85 then it can compete with C16. I am with FF86 on this one, above a 1000HP build there is just too much money involved to risk PUMP E85.
A great fuel system cleaner is Xylene or Tuolene as ForceFed86 mentioned. Back when I ran a Buick GN turbo V6 I would use this to blend with 91 octane and brew my own 100 octane. For every gallon you put into the fuel the recipe said to pour in 1 oz of Marvel Mystery oil. I made it for years since it was cheaper than buying 100 octane or 116.
I run e85 year round in my turbo LS9 RX-7 and no injector issues. Cheap twin Walbro 450lph pumps and 160lb injectors with Holley Dominator. Makes around 1400hp flywheel. If I stay out of the throttle on the highway it gets over 20mpg (3.31 gear 8.8" with 26" tall tire and .63 overdrive). In town it gets awful mileage.
It blows my mind why people buy C16 for $12+ gallon when you could simply run e85 for $2/gallon. e85 rocks and in my area it stays around 78-83% year round luckily. I do have to drive about 20 minutes out of my way to get it..... if you use the Gas Buddy app on your iPhone it has an option for e85 to find the cheapest and closest in your area.
I run e85 year round in my turbo LS9 RX-7 and no injector issues. Cheap twin Walbro 450lph pumps and 160lb injectors with Holley Dominator. Makes around 1400hp flywheel. If I stay out of the throttle on the highway it gets over 20mpg (3.31 gear 8.8" with 26" tall tire and .63 overdrive). In town it gets awful mileage.
It blows my mind why people buy C16 for $12+ gallon when you could simply run e85 for $2/gallon. e85 rocks and in my area it stays around 78-83% year round luckily. I do have to drive about 20 minutes out of my way to get it..... if you use the Gas Buddy app on your iPhone it has an option for e85 to find the cheapest and closest in your area.
I think alot depends how much time you spend cruising. If it's an all out race car race fuel isn't much of an expense.
Buddy uses the ball valve setup mentioned above. Uses around .8 of a gallon of 114 octane each pass around 950whp. That includes warm up in pits, burnout, pass, and return to pits. The guys that run 16 injectors and have the C16 injectors come online in boost only use much less. They don't need crazy mechanical pumps, huge fuel lines etc. that ethanol/alky guys need to make 1500hp.
Using a setup like below with a dinky stock fuel pump in the main tank and a 4303 style with C16 would be cheap and easy as well. The pump getting power determines which fuel is fed. Have your C16 pump kick on at 1lb of boost and the pump gas pump kick off at say 2lbs. Was going to try it on my latest build but we can get E30-E50 at the pumps local now so that's even easier for my 600whp goal.
Buddy uses the ball valve setup mentioned above. Uses around .8 of a gallon of 114 octane each pass around 950whp. That includes warm up in pits, burnout, pass, and return to pits. The guys that run 16 injectors and have the C16 injectors come online in boost only use much less. They don't need crazy mechanical pumps, huge fuel lines etc. that ethanol/alky guys need to make 1500hp.
Using a setup like below with a dinky stock fuel pump in the main tank and a 4303 style with C16 would be cheap and easy as well. The pump getting power determines which fuel is fed. Have your C16 pump kick on at 1lb of boost and the pump gas pump kick off at say 2lbs. Was going to try it on my latest build but we can get E30-E50 at the pumps local now so that's even easier for my 600whp goal.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Jan 7, 2017 at 08:17 PM.
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I've only started running e85 since I built the LS race car. The tracks I go to most take me right past the station that Carries it. It an hour away
Now, I can get turbo blue 116 local by the 5 gallon pail, it's 95$. My 2jz car that rarely gos out of town that was built a few years before the LS car runs megasquirt and I use staged injection. So much like your picture, i run pimp gas and blend in/stage over fully to the 116 race fuel and lay down big power at will. Nice thing is, making a street pull a day, my 4 gallon race tank will last nearly 6 weeks. I'd like to run ethanol in that car but even on 116 I'm out of injector and pump
I do like the staged setup, and actually ran it on the LS car when it was all motor, but once I went turbo I went e85 mainly for its intrtxooling, and cost I burn close to 1.25 gallons in my round trip at the 1/4 mile
Now, I can get turbo blue 116 local by the 5 gallon pail, it's 95$. My 2jz car that rarely gos out of town that was built a few years before the LS car runs megasquirt and I use staged injection. So much like your picture, i run pimp gas and blend in/stage over fully to the 116 race fuel and lay down big power at will. Nice thing is, making a street pull a day, my 4 gallon race tank will last nearly 6 weeks. I'd like to run ethanol in that car but even on 116 I'm out of injector and pump
I do like the staged setup, and actually ran it on the LS car when it was all motor, but once I went turbo I went e85 mainly for its intrtxooling, and cost I burn close to 1.25 gallons in my round trip at the 1/4 mile