Forced Induction Superchargers | Turbochargers | Intercoolers

Help me understand this.....spraying Meth after the MAF......

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 10, 2017 | 12:37 PM
  #41  
stevieturbo's Avatar
9 Second Club
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
Likes: 185
From: Norn Iron
Default

Originally Posted by LS6427
My motor is already built and in my car. It's 10.8:1 cr. I can drop it to about 10.2:1 by using LSA heads.

So 1,000 RWHP probably can't happen safely on 92 pump...right?

.
I would say not, unless it's already making 800 or so of that n/a lol
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2017 | 12:41 PM
  #42  
ddnspider's Avatar
10 Second Club
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (26)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,628
Likes: 1,778
From: FL
Default

Originally Posted by ScottyBG
Actually I researched how to do it, after you mentioned it and gave me the lead on it. Honestly I don't like it, or think it is really the right way to do it, it really is doing 2 wrongs to make a right IMO. This is just my personal opinion, I'm not judging anyone that likes it, it is just not how I would do it. I like the deleting the MAF option better. There are pitfalls to either method, we are taking about an ECU not designed to function at the power and airflow levels we are dealing with, and making it work. I just think the pitfalls of using the MAF (without the other functions that come in a good SD OS designed for boost, which has boost enrichment tables etc) are potentially worse than going with an SD OS and going that way. Main thing I don't like is that all fueling in boost is handled by the MAF function only, there is no way to utilize or fine tune the VE table in boost going that way, because it doesn't exist in the OS that has MAF enabled, the VE table stops at 105 kPa in those OS. Also there is no fall back fueling if the MAF were to malfunction. I guess the same thing can happen on a SD car if the MAP fails, but I feel more confident in those. I believe the MAF is more delicate, and in a more vulnerable position on the engine to be damaged or fail.

You will find people on both sides of this argument, but a lot more are on the SD side of it now. One of the reasons, is there are more people using HPTuners than EFI Live on these platforms. The methods used to get around this MAF limitation existed before there were some of the more recent SD OS's available for use. Their availability has drastically reduced the number of people using a MAF meter, on boosted setups. Look at the builds in the Forced Induction setup and see how many are using a MAF? They are hard to find.
No worries, everyone has their own choice. I won't get into an argument about which is better and why, its just an alternative option. I get irritated when people make blanket statements and say that its impossible to make more than 450-500hp with a MAF.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2017 | 05:43 PM
  #43  
kingtal0n's Avatar
Banned
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 19
From: florida
Default

If you have a serious car, you dont want some janky electric wire in the path of your airflow. pretty basic ideology.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2017 | 06:35 PM
  #44  
ddnspider's Avatar
10 Second Club
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (26)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,628
Likes: 1,778
From: FL
Default

Originally Posted by kingtal0n
If you have a serious car, you dont want some janky electric wire in the path of your airflow. pretty basic ideology.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2017 | 07:11 PM
  #45  
JakeFusion's Avatar
Super Hulk Smash
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (7)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Default

You can tune around it yes, but with the MAF, aren't you limited to one boost level once you "hack" the tune? Like if I wanted to run 12psi on the street... and I'm making 700rwhp. And then at the track and run 22... and I'm at 950rwhp. I have to load a new tune for the track correct? I can't just up the boost controller from 12 to 22 like you can with a 3-bar SD tune? Or am I wrong in that assumption?
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2017 | 08:48 PM
  #46  
ddnspider's Avatar
10 Second Club
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (26)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,628
Likes: 1,778
From: FL
Default

Originally Posted by JakeFusion
You can tune around it yes, but with the MAF, aren't you limited to one boost level once you "hack" the tune? Like if I wanted to run 12psi on the street... and I'm making 700rwhp. And then at the track and run 22... and I'm at 950rwhp. I have to load a new tune for the track correct? I can't just up the boost controller from 12 to 22 like you can with a 3-bar SD tune? Or am I wrong in that assumption?
Sort of. Your example of almost doubling the boost is a bit extreme. If you don't max the maf curve you can account for an increase or boost to a point but it may not handle huge increases in boost like a 3 bar map setup. I would argue that it's the same as a nitrous or na setup. If you change the setup significantly you have to retune. Even on a speed density tune if you change the setup you may have to touch up the VE. The tuning is WAY quicker on a maf setup than a VE setup to boot.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2017 | 08:58 PM
  #47  
JakeFusion's Avatar
Super Hulk Smash
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (7)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Default

Okay interesting. Thanks.

And I don't think it's extreme... that's what I plan to do. 700rwhp is much easier on parts on the street than 900+... but for a race, you want everything available. Or if you're sandbagging...
Reply
Old Feb 11, 2017 | 07:12 AM
  #48  
ddnspider's Avatar
10 Second Club
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (26)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,628
Likes: 1,778
From: FL
Default

Originally Posted by JakeFusion
Okay interesting. Thanks.

And I don't think it's extreme... that's what I plan to do. 700rwhp is much easier on parts on the street than 900+... but for a race, you want everything available. Or if you're sandbagging...
that's understandable but also pretty quick to load your 900hp tune when you get to the track.
Reply
Old Feb 12, 2017 | 11:32 AM
  #49  
LS6427's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 11,289
Likes: 13
From: South Florida
Default

Originally Posted by gsteele
Everyone has a different definition of "safely". I think all would agree that 1000 RWHP on pump gas can be achieved more safely on 9.0 than on 10.8 cr. BTW, thanks for waxing eloquent on "The truth about the middle east". It was much appreciated.
I would go 9:1 cr but I would have to change my pistons.....just don;t want to. Using full time E85 is no problem at all where I live, stations are everywhere. Plus, my friend lives pretty much right in the middle of the city where I am.....he's keeping a 250 gallon tank of E85 at his house for me on his property so I can use it for my gas station also......

Yea...the middle east is completely twisted. Some things good....lots of things bad....LOL

.
Reply
Old Feb 12, 2017 | 11:35 AM
  #50  
LS6427's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 11,289
Likes: 13
From: South Florida
Default

MAF tune vs SD tune........for a 1,000+ RWHP set up.

Isn't a SD tune better to go with....?

.
Reply
Old Feb 12, 2017 | 12:16 PM
  #51  
FEAR LS's Avatar
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
From: California
Default

SD... and don't look back. My Trans Am is on a 3 Bar SD OS. All on SBE Gen III parts with FI S485, runs 5.7X's on baby soft 60' all while weighing a **** ton.

Maybe I missed it, where are you now? I just got back from Bahrain not to long ago. Stay safe man!
Reply
Old Feb 12, 2017 | 01:36 PM
  #52  
LS6427's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 11,289
Likes: 13
From: South Florida
Default

Originally Posted by FEAR LS
SD... and don't look back. My Trans Am is on a 3 Bar SD OS. All on SBE Gen III parts with FI S485, runs 5.7X's on baby soft 60' all while weighing a **** ton.

Maybe I missed it, where are you now? I just got back from Bahrain not to long ago. Stay safe man!
JZ also recommended an S485 w/race cover for my 390ci at 10.8:1 compression....full time E85. 4L80E.

But I was also told it may be too much for it.....what do you think.



....I fly all over the Middle East region......mainly Beirut, Oman, Bahrain, Riyadh and we're based in Dubai. We don't go to Cairo anymore since an assassination of my boss was attempted while we were there in August last year. Used to go to Erbil, Iraq until ISIS went through and started killing everyone in mid 2014. Lots of people I knew there are dead. My boss was going to build a couple schools and a childrens hospital....$200 million of his own cash. It was a great city when we went there, now its a death trap.
We also fly to Europe a lot for his fun trips, going to Romania on the 20th, over-flying Iran going through Turkey.

.
Reply
Old Feb 13, 2017 | 12:34 PM
  #53  
SethU's Avatar
TECH Regular
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Default

Wow, thanks for the heads up on Dubai. Reminds me of all the tourists that go to Hollywood. There's NOTHING glamorous about Hollywood.

Young punks that threaten imminent death... they're everywhere, especially in bars. You'd think, with all their money and what that comes with, the upper crust wouldn't have to stoop. Young fragile egos. I guess money and privilege can't cure that, nor guarantee any level of class.

Well... Scratch Dubai off the to-do list. How about Abu Dhabi? Same there?
Reply
Old Feb 13, 2017 | 01:02 PM
  #54  
SethU's Avatar
TECH Regular
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by kingtal0n
...You could say "absorbs" but even I can nitpick this and say that the energy is invested into translational, transitional and similar (twisting, jostling, etc) movements of the molecular bond energy, and so on and so forth until we are discussion electronic configuration and cloud orientations.
Yes, we certainly could tech talk the fun out of the conversation for everyone else. The point I was getting at is using the phrasing "taking heat away" or "carrying heat away" implies that it's (the thermal energy) not in the charge air stream any longer, when in fact it's all still there. Where, conversely, an intercooler more accurately takes or carries heat away from the charge air.

Like I said, a little nitpicky. However, I think it's an important detail for those that really want to understand how/why.



Originally Posted by kingtal0n
...There has been a fair amount of research done on the subject of using water to replace up to 50% of fuel, for example, where water is assumed to play an active role in the process.
That interests me quite a bit. You don't happen to have a link to some of that stuff, do you?



Originally Posted by kingtal0n
... however, for the majority of applications it will not significantly reduce IAT. Notice the use of my word, "completely". It was 100% accurate to say that the water injected, although some portion would evaporate, it would not completely evaporate.
This seems especially relevant to saturation, when more water can't possibly evaporate... well, for every molecule that does, another condenses back into liquid. Which has brought up the thought process that I'd be interested in calculating and confirming... What is the variance of possible charge air cooling of water available, given ambient relative humidity?

This quest to know everything... There is no bottom, no end, and every question answered creates 2+ new questions. Absolutely maddening at times. LOL
Reply
Old Feb 13, 2017 | 01:32 PM
  #55  
LS6427's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 11,289
Likes: 13
From: South Florida
Default

Originally Posted by SethU
Wow, thanks for the heads up on Dubai. Reminds me of all the tourists that go to Hollywood. There's NOTHING glamorous about Hollywood.

Young punks that threaten imminent death... they're everywhere, especially in bars. You'd think, with all their money and what that comes with, the upper crust wouldn't have to stoop. Young fragile egos. I guess money and privilege can't cure that, nor guarantee any level of class.

Well... Scratch Dubai off the to-do list. How about Abu Dhabi? Same there?
Abu Dhabi is an hour drive south of Dubai. Its worse. They are more traditional there, so less tolerance for any types of freedom like my wife walking around the mall with her arms showing. Or if we hold hands a cop could ask you to stop. Less bars, less fun.

The only city in the UAE thats worth anything is Dubai. But again, its a 2 day deal and you're done.

In Dubai...the Sheikh here realizes his religion and traditions are crap and if he wants people from around the world to continue to come there as tourists he BETTER let it be as much like America as possible. And it is......there are many more bars in Dubai then in Ft. Lauderdale or Miami, hookers everywhere, boating, beaches, even strip clubs. If you get caught in a strip club and you are American they will let you walk away. They will then arrest a few people and shut it down. Then they move it somewhere else. They let them stay open for a little while then shut them down, knowing they will open back up. But they need to also appease their citizens acting like they are also doing what they want.

The arrogant punks are just that, punks. A friend of mine from Los Angeles was here for two weeks and we all went out and one of these punks messed with him....he put him to sleep outside the club. Then we had to haul ***....lol

So, my co-worker got in a car accident last week. She was stopped in traffic and fro ma side street an Emirate women slammed into her passenger side, straight into the car. The women gets out and starts telling all the Indian and Pakistanis to tell the police that it was her fault when they arrive. The cops here have a procedure though, they show up, they talk to nobody, they look at the scene and they make their decision on who was at fault. Luckily all the Pakistanis and Indians told the police it was the Emirate ladies fault and that she was telling them to tell a lie. This women argued with the police....they fined her for arguing, then gave her the ticket. BUT....my co-workers car was totaled and her leg was badly bruised where she couldn't walk for one week and spent two nights in the hospital.
NOT allowed to sue for pain and suffering and you must pay for your own medical expenses. BULLSHIT.

BUT, if you hurt an Emirate in an accident....you will go to jail if you do not pay them what they say is fair. Its called Blood Money Rule. Its true. If you kill someone BY ACCIDENT......you could be there working to pay the family back for 25 years. Or go to jail. Its bullshit.
They are the most unfair, discriminatory people anywhere. Its a miracle the Emirate lady got the ticket, but probably because she was a screaming arrogant bitch.

Another friend got rear-ended at a traffic light and my friend got the ticket. The Emirate said to the cops that he backed up into him. Done, case closed. It all depends on who they are. Thousands are related in some way to the Royal Family, so they are untouchable.

Did you watch "Slaves of Dubai" on youtube.....? Thats what the Sheikh of Dubai allows to happen.

.
Reply




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:20 PM.