Turbos & Towing
Originally Posted by 52172
why not just run a pyrometer and keep a close eye on temps and run a safe tune and then tow whatever you want?
. Gives me good entertainment though....hehe BTW, the 2JZ is great but their is another inline 6 Toyota that I think will probably be the wave of the furture. The engine is big cubes...4.5 liter and its a DOHC engine as well. I will hopefully have one soon, as they are somewhat hard to come by as well. We have alot of customers overseas in different countries and these guys are already hitting the Toyota motor hard and making HUGE power. BTW, here is a some shots from a customer of mine. He owns future generation MS in the middle east. They build some wild rides....here are some phone camera shots....so they suck, but at least you can see what the engine looks like...
With girdle and partial block fill, you will probably see these engines reach 1800-2000hp.
Jose
With girdle and partial block fill, you will probably see these engines reach 1800-2000hp.
Jose
I cna definatly understand them saying dont use it for towing. Cuase 99,9% if people that buy FI dont spend the 1k for a laptop and hptuners or ls1edit. So they will be running thier power tune all the time. And that woudl make from some bad news. Unless they are running a extremely safe tune. If you dont have forged pistons wouldnt the heat from a 2 mile hill put WAY too much heat in there?
That engine looks like its in a tacoma. Prolly a fast *** truck lol
John
That engine looks like its in a tacoma. Prolly a fast *** truck lol
John
John, if someone is not smart enough to tune it and blow it...then that is not a system and design flaw and hence no reason when properly tuned it can't be done. As for pistons heating...why sure, they absolutely will, but that is what the tune is for. Just watch the EGT's and you would be fine.
BTW, that engine is in a Landcruiser/Lexus.
BTW, that engine is in a Landcruiser/Lexus.
Last edited by JZ 97 SS 1500; Jul 16, 2005 at 02:59 PM.
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if i was selling a front mount turbo kit i would tell everyone to tow at your own risk. many people will just bolt the kit on an give it hell, thats just how it is. many people do know know what knock sounds like.
the first concern would be the header, it is made of thin wall stainless, i dont think it will hold up to extended periods of high heat. if the kit used the stock mainifolds then maybe.
the first concern would be the header, it is made of thin wall stainless, i dont think it will hold up to extended periods of high heat. if the kit used the stock mainifolds then maybe.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
I would just supercharge it. The turbo, while under load is going to be in excess of 1000 degree's I would think. I'm super keen on the idea of running 1000 degree motor oil through my engine for several miles/minutes at a stretch. Diesel's use a different oil than gasoline engines, maybe that's part of the reason?
what are the specs on that trail blazer?
that looks like an awsome setup would be interested in the particulars.
doesnt look like a street kind of build looks more raced out
would be interested
that looks like an awsome setup would be interested in the particulars.
doesnt look like a street kind of build looks more raced out
would be interested
9 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 985
Likes: 7
From: Lake Orion, MI
There is a simple and obvious reason for recommending that you do not tow with these kits. People won't take the time to load a "tow tune" in there every time they want to put the trailer on. No amount of heat wrap or pyrometer watching will matter on a grade when pulling 7-10K pounds on a 90F day, after being on the road for a few hundred miles. Something will melt or the 4L80E trans is going to spit chunks. Halfway up the hill with the load is the wrong time to be saying... "ooooppppssss". 
All you have to do is look at every plug and play kit or PCM tuner for the diesel trucks. They all have a tow settings that are about 1/3 of the max power and way down the list on the relative EGTs. Even the guys with built Allison trannies don't run around towing more than one setting above the "tow setting" because the EGTs are still dangerous over the long haul and rough grades with a load.
Can you beef up the intercooler, the radiator, the fans, heat wrap risk areas and have separate tunes for racing and towing? Could someone do the tow testing to find the right power level for these trucks with a stock tranny and a 7-10K load? Sure... but that's not included in a standard gasser turbo truck kit at this time.
The current kits are built to be deadly sleeper fast fun and they do it well.
Rick
All you have to do is look at every plug and play kit or PCM tuner for the diesel trucks. They all have a tow settings that are about 1/3 of the max power and way down the list on the relative EGTs. Even the guys with built Allison trannies don't run around towing more than one setting above the "tow setting" because the EGTs are still dangerous over the long haul and rough grades with a load.
Can you beef up the intercooler, the radiator, the fans, heat wrap risk areas and have separate tunes for racing and towing? Could someone do the tow testing to find the right power level for these trucks with a stock tranny and a 7-10K load? Sure... but that's not included in a standard gasser turbo truck kit at this time.
The current kits are built to be deadly sleeper fast fun and they do it well.
Rick
Aye, good point... you know they sell those kits to some Joe Schmoe's who just want a faster, more powerful truck and know nothing about the limits of their vehicle's engine.... and let's face it, it's going to be MUCH easier to cause turbo-induced damage to your engine and trans when you're towing than when you're empty. And do you think they want to load a more conservative tune for towing? Please! the only "tune" they know is the **** on their radios!!!
Originally Posted by 2001-WS6
There is a simple and obvious reason for recommending that you do not tow with these kits. People won't take the time to load a "tow tune" in there every time they want to put the trailer on. No amount of heat wrap or pyrometer watching will matter on a grade when pulling 7-10K pounds on a 90F day, after being on the road for a few hundred miles. Something will melt or the 4L80E trans is going to spit chunks. Halfway up the hill with the load is the wrong time to be saying... "ooooppppssss".
The current kits are built to be deadly sleeper fast fun and they do it well.
Rick
The current kits are built to be deadly sleeper fast fun and they do it well.
Rick
A friend of mine has a whipple on his Suburban. His only complaint is that it is in boost all the time when he is driving on the highway, and it is killing his gas mileage. I would think that towing would keep you in boost all the time. As soon as you go into PE mode, you are dumping a lot more fuel in.
What if you wired opened up the wastegate while towing? Would that make a difference?
-Geoff
What if you wired opened up the wastegate while towing? Would that make a difference?
-Geoff
Last edited by White_Hawk; Jul 17, 2005 at 10:48 PM.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
I haven't checked this post since Friday and there seem to be a lot of different thoughts. Now I see a comment that a whipple seems to be in boost all the time in a Suburban. This would not be a good move for my dad because that would cost him the gas mileage that he needs to keep. I thought Whipples had bypass valves on them & were only in boost if you put your foot down on the go peddal to much?
Sounds like if I go with the turbo I would need a tow turbo tune and I would need to check what grade piping is used so that it would not get to hot as well. Also turbo wrap, pipe wrap, and egt gauges would be a must also. Thanks guys for all the info. If I had it done I would have it tuned at JD's Auto in PA here, I guess I would just tell them my needs and tell them I want a safe tune for towing.
Sounds like if I go with the turbo I would need a tow turbo tune and I would need to check what grade piping is used so that it would not get to hot as well. Also turbo wrap, pipe wrap, and egt gauges would be a must also. Thanks guys for all the info. If I had it done I would have it tuned at JD's Auto in PA here, I guess I would just tell them my needs and tell them I want a safe tune for towing.
Suspended Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
From: Just outside of Palm Springs Ca.
Originally Posted by JZ 97 SS 1500
Do what?? Do you have any clue about turbos?? By your claim the millions of $$ in research by the car compaines is worthless. I guess I need to tell all my turbo diesel customers to move their turbos to the back.
Zek, yes you can run the turbo system up front no problem. Just like with any turbo system, watch the timing and your EGT's. As for to much backpressure, if the turbo is properly sized you won't have any issues. I guess many people and companies can sell turbos and kits, but very few really understand what they are selling, much less test them. My advice, buy the Livernois kit, you'll be happy. Run a Turbo blanket on the turbine and your done. You'll have quick spool, unlike remote mount, which will increase your torque #'s and give you better throttle response under towing loads.
Zek, yes you can run the turbo system up front no problem. Just like with any turbo system, watch the timing and your EGT's. As for to much backpressure, if the turbo is properly sized you won't have any issues. I guess many people and companies can sell turbos and kits, but very few really understand what they are selling, much less test them. My advice, buy the Livernois kit, you'll be happy. Run a Turbo blanket on the turbine and your done. You'll have quick spool, unlike remote mount, which will increase your torque #'s and give you better throttle response under towing loads.
-Bryan
Suspended Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
From: Just outside of Palm Springs Ca.
Originally Posted by JZ 97 SS 1500
Their is absolutely no reason why you can not run a turbo setup for towing...lol. Well first, high underhood temps under load means its time to wrap some exhaust parts....lol. Next if your water temps are rising, that means its time to wrap some exhaust parts...lol, and their maybe some detontation going on. Heck we run turbocharged SBC's in marine applications (ala off shore power boats and Ski boats) which runs under HUGE load on water for LONG periods of time due to the incredible drag created by the water. iThis is in engine compartments that are smaller and more tightly cramped than our cars. No reason why you can't run it....just be smart with it and wrap important parts...lol.
Jose
Jose
Too Bad we can't put the entire Ocean/Lake into our radiators, then we would be able to tow with 1000RWHP and run cool all day long!
Yea, I was thinking that too... marine applications (ie powerboats) usually run A2W intercoolers and can easily achieve cooling efficiencies over 100%... especially with the temp of the lake/ocean water pretty much always being well below ambient air temp. I am sure that helps you keep it at WOT for extended periods of time!
Also, in a scenario like that a more conservative tune would be the norm, right?
Also, in a scenario like that a more conservative tune would be the norm, right?
Originally Posted by Race-Prep
Too Bad we can't put the entire Ocean/Lake into our radiators, then we would be able to tow with 1000RWHP and run cool all day long!
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From: Wichita Falls, TX
Ok I am a little lost hear... I drove with a supercharge on my 93 pulling 7800 lbs, up down the road no issue, except in the heat would take a little more time to get up to speed but thats it.. Once there set the cruise and only went into boost if I hit a hill (not a small one either) somehting that force the truck to down shift... Now the 6.0L has a lot more pulling power then the old 5.7 did, and I think a better transmission.. I know there are a ton of coolers on this truck, engine oil, 2 trany coolers, and of coarse a radiator...
I would have to say if the vehicle is always in boost while pulling, you need a bigger truck, or you are over loaded...
I have not hooked a trailer to mine yet with the turbo so do not know what the heat is going to get to.
But you have to ask the question is this a tow rig or a race truck, two total different worlds.
STS I have "0" experience with but its in a cooler place, and if you can create the same power level back there @ the same rpm I would go with it if I was not so hard headed and built my own.
Ricky
I would have to say if the vehicle is always in boost while pulling, you need a bigger truck, or you are over loaded...
I have not hooked a trailer to mine yet with the turbo so do not know what the heat is going to get to.
But you have to ask the question is this a tow rig or a race truck, two total different worlds.
STS I have "0" experience with but its in a cooler place, and if you can create the same power level back there @ the same rpm I would go with it if I was not so hard headed
and built my own.Ricky