Adding FI to my 422
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 208
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From: Denver
Re: Adding FI to my 422 I've read alot about how the intakes are the limiting factor on our motors, and even a holley intake port matched won't solve the problem.
Has anyone tried that ls-spyder intake on a FI car to see if helps? I know it's pricey for an intake, but if the end result is dynamic then it would be worth it right?
http://www.nitrouswarehouse.com/ls-spyder.htm
Maybe I should post this as another thread...
Sean
Has anyone tried that ls-spyder intake on a FI car to see if helps? I know it's pricey for an intake, but if the end result is dynamic then it would be worth it right?
http://www.nitrouswarehouse.com/ls-spyder.htm
Maybe I should post this as another thread...
Sean
Re: Adding FI to my 422 www.ls1speed.com has some custom intakes that would work well.
I am testing a different intake in a couple of weeks.
I think you first have to focus on what changes you have to make.
Find out your compression.
I am thinking FI too!!!
John
ARE 422ci 11.25:1
I am testing a different intake in a couple of weeks.
I think you first have to focus on what changes you have to make.
Find out your compression.
I am thinking FI too!!!
John
ARE 422ci 11.25:1
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 24
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From: Houston
Re: Adding FI to my 422 Muuhahahaha!
Sean, I love the sound of your project! Drop me a line if you wanna discuss anything about turbos, accesories, etc. Pretty sure as Tony said you want this to be a single turbo, because it sure makes a life a lot less complicated and expensive as opposed to a twin setup. Still though, you'll need a lot of parts Obviously your gonna need forged internals, but I leave that for the rest of these guys, and you'll have to lower the compression a bit.
The upside to this is turbos are great and they the flow big air, especially if your motor wil take the abuse. You will not have to deal with the lag of a 3.0 inline-6 like the Supra either, so I'd advise going big on the turbo. The downside is I don't think there are that many people push crazy power with turbo LS1's, with the exception of a few and this may get pricey as you may break stuff. Also, I don't know if the 346ci arguement makes much sense to me as boost by defintion is simply a measured backup (restriction) of airflow going into the motor.
BTW, your gonna need about 850+ rwhp to take Houston's best Supras from a roll. How crazy do you wanna get???
-Joe
Sean, I love the sound of your project! Drop me a line if you wanna discuss anything about turbos, accesories, etc. Pretty sure as Tony said you want this to be a single turbo, because it sure makes a life a lot less complicated and expensive as opposed to a twin setup. Still though, you'll need a lot of parts Obviously your gonna need forged internals, but I leave that for the rest of these guys, and you'll have to lower the compression a bit.
The upside to this is turbos are great and they the flow big air, especially if your motor wil take the abuse. You will not have to deal with the lag of a 3.0 inline-6 like the Supra either, so I'd advise going big on the turbo. The downside is I don't think there are that many people push crazy power with turbo LS1's, with the exception of a few and this may get pricey as you may break stuff. Also, I don't know if the 346ci arguement makes much sense to me as boost by defintion is simply a measured backup (restriction) of airflow going into the motor.
BTW, your gonna need about 850+ rwhp to take Houston's best Supras from a roll. How crazy do you wanna get???
-Joe
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 208
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From: Denver
Re: Adding FI to my 422 Joe,
How it going? It was the boost controller in your car that got me thinking about this, that and it gets real old having to refill my bottle.
I'll wait to see what Jayson (From MTI) says before I do too much smack talking, but I think I'll be able to give those Houston highway supras a run for their money when all is said and done.
Sean
How it going? It was the boost controller in your car that got me thinking about this, that and it gets real old having to refill my bottle.
I'll wait to see what Jayson (From MTI) says before I do too much smack talking, but I think I'll be able to give those Houston highway supras a run for their money when all is said and done.
Sean
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2002
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Re: Adding FI to my 422 Currdog-
Interested to see what you find out because I am considering the purchase of an ARE 422 car and would like to go with Rob's kit in about 3-4 months once they are all tested and the bugs are worked out. Would be nice to hit the cold weather months with about 700 rwhp!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Interested to see what you find out because I am considering the purchase of an ARE 422 car and would like to go with Rob's kit in about 3-4 months once they are all tested and the bugs are worked out. Would be nice to hit the cold weather months with about 700 rwhp!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Adding FI to my 422 I am having a Vortech T trim (13psi) added to my 382. My CR is going to be 9.5:1. I am also am going to have all my fuel upgraded. Most of it came from LS1speed.com I got their fuel rails (#10 in #6 out), braided fuel lines, billet fuel pressure regulator, filter element, 255L in-tank pump. Also from Vortech a T Rex in-line pump and 42 lbs injectors
Re: Adding FI to my 422 Dont forget the intake is a restriction on a N/A motor but when you start forcing air through it {boost} it will flow alot more.I would use alcohol injection on the street to fight detonation.You should be able to run 10 psi on pump gas with it.The last buick i did could not run more than 14# on pump gas with 20* timing all i did was put the alcohol kit on and now he runs 21# on pump gas every day.Oh and with a intercooled turbo you should get at LEAST 15 hp per pound of boost. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
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Re: Adding FI to my 422 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jleews6:
<strong>Dont forget the intake is a restriction on a N/A motor but when you start forcing air through it {boost} it will flow alot more.I would use alcohol injection on the street to fight detonation.You should be able to run 10 psi on pump gas with it.The last buick i did could not run more than 14# on pump gas with 20* timing all i did was put the alcohol kit on and now he runs 21# on pump gas every day.Oh and with a intercooled turbo you should get at LEAST 15 hp per pound of boost. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It may flow a bit more under pressure, but it's still a restriction. Trust me, i've been there already <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
15HP ber psi?? <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
I was seeing near 30RWHP per pound on a stock long block, the goal is close to 40 RWHP per pound w/ the new heads/cam/intake.
a big cube motor under boost is gonna make serious power, but only if you can get fuel to it.
42's are not gonna cut it
<strong>Dont forget the intake is a restriction on a N/A motor but when you start forcing air through it {boost} it will flow alot more.I would use alcohol injection on the street to fight detonation.You should be able to run 10 psi on pump gas with it.The last buick i did could not run more than 14# on pump gas with 20* timing all i did was put the alcohol kit on and now he runs 21# on pump gas every day.Oh and with a intercooled turbo you should get at LEAST 15 hp per pound of boost. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It may flow a bit more under pressure, but it's still a restriction. Trust me, i've been there already <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
15HP ber psi?? <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
I was seeing near 30RWHP per pound on a stock long block, the goal is close to 40 RWHP per pound w/ the new heads/cam/intake.
a big cube motor under boost is gonna make serious power, but only if you can get fuel to it.
42's are not gonna cut it
TECH Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: LS1.chat
Re: Adding FI to my 422 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">255L in-tank pump. Also from Vortech a T Rex in-line pump and 42 lbs injectors</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The intank will also be a restriction. What's the point of putting on a HUGE inline pump if you are choking it with an intank pump? I know, the 255 won't have to work as hard, but the inline should be able to outflow the intank!
(I've never heard of a good explanation to why this is such a common pratice aside from ease of setup. Anyone? )
As Y2KHawk mentioned, what's up with the 42's? Sounds like you are building a monster setup but haven't detailed the fueling or thought about the fact that the stock PCM will run out of metering capability for you fairly easy if your setup is what you listed.
Check out Y2KHawks setup (site). There was a reason he didn't kill head gaskets left and right like most do and made 600rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
(I've never heard of a good explanation to why this is such a common pratice aside from ease of setup. Anyone? )
As Y2KHawk mentioned, what's up with the 42's? Sounds like you are building a monster setup but haven't detailed the fueling or thought about the fact that the stock PCM will run out of metering capability for you fairly easy if your setup is what you listed.
Check out Y2KHawks setup (site). There was a reason he didn't kill head gaskets left and right like most do and made 600rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Re: Adding FI to my 422 Y2Khawk if you notice i said at LEAST 15 hp per pound of boost.Trust me i have seen a mustang go from 121 mph on motor to 153.4 with a single turbo and a liquid cooler. Also i know the intake is a restriction but you would be surprised how much air it will move under boost.Just to give you an idea a 3.8l buick head will flow 1/2 as much as a a ported ls1 head will flow but you can make over 500 hp with them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> .
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 208
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From: Denver
Re: Adding FI to my 422 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JAS:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">255L in-tank pump. Also from Vortech a T Rex in-line pump and 42 lbs injectors</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The intank will also be a restriction. What's the point of putting on a HUGE inline pump if you are choking it with an intank pump? I know, the 255 won't have to work as hard, but the inline should be able to outflow the intank!
(I've never heard of a good explanation to why this is such a common pratice aside from ease of setup. Anyone? )
As Y2KHawk mentioned, what's up with the 42's? Sounds like you are building a monster setup but haven't detailed the fueling or thought about the fact that the stock PCM will run out of metering capability for you fairly easy if your setup is what you listed.
Check out Y2KHawks setup (site). There was a reason he didn't kill head gaskets left and right like most do and made 600rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Remember here guys, my car is set up for what it runs today, the list of info before was just to let everyone know what base I am working from. Nothing has been prepped for the turbo system yet, I'm gathering information.
Sean
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">255L in-tank pump. Also from Vortech a T Rex in-line pump and 42 lbs injectors</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The intank will also be a restriction. What's the point of putting on a HUGE inline pump if you are choking it with an intank pump? I know, the 255 won't have to work as hard, but the inline should be able to outflow the intank!
(I've never heard of a good explanation to why this is such a common pratice aside from ease of setup. Anyone? )
As Y2KHawk mentioned, what's up with the 42's? Sounds like you are building a monster setup but haven't detailed the fueling or thought about the fact that the stock PCM will run out of metering capability for you fairly easy if your setup is what you listed.
Check out Y2KHawks setup (site). There was a reason he didn't kill head gaskets left and right like most do and made 600rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Remember here guys, my car is set up for what it runs today, the list of info before was just to let everyone know what base I am working from. Nothing has been prepped for the turbo system yet, I'm gathering information.
Sean
Re: Adding FI to my 422 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jleews6:
<strong>Y2Khawk if you notice i said at LEAST 15 hp per pound of boost.Trust me i have seen a mustang go from 121 mph on motor to 153.4 with a single turbo and a liquid cooler. Also i know the intake is a restriction but you would be surprised how much air it will move under boost.Just to give you an idea a 3.8l buick head will flow 1/2 as much as a a ported ls1 head will flow but you can make over 500 hp with them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
But i'm sick of seeing almost no change in RWHP beyond 5k RPM from 10psi to 14 psi, but getting HUGE torque spikes below that.
yes you can make alot of power on a restrictive system, but with how much boost?
and at what cost with inlet temp?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Food for thought, the boost controller can make up for a less than ideal intake system but what do you lose in the process??
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
big motor + big fuel system + big turbo + BIG intercooler = BIG $$$$ + BIG HP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
<strong>Y2Khawk if you notice i said at LEAST 15 hp per pound of boost.Trust me i have seen a mustang go from 121 mph on motor to 153.4 with a single turbo and a liquid cooler. Also i know the intake is a restriction but you would be surprised how much air it will move under boost.Just to give you an idea a 3.8l buick head will flow 1/2 as much as a a ported ls1 head will flow but you can make over 500 hp with them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
But i'm sick of seeing almost no change in RWHP beyond 5k RPM from 10psi to 14 psi, but getting HUGE torque spikes below that.
yes you can make alot of power on a restrictive system, but with how much boost?
and at what cost with inlet temp?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Food for thought, the boost controller can make up for a less than ideal intake system but what do you lose in the process??
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
big motor + big fuel system + big turbo + BIG intercooler = BIG $$$$ + BIG HP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Adding FI to my 422 I just did some research and found that the Walbro 340 flows 255 liters (66 gallons) per hour. The T Rex flows 50 gallons per hour.
The 255L is supposed to be good for over 600 rwhp. Also if you look on Vortech website anyone runnning over 10 psi, it is recommended that you upgarde the in-tank pump. The T Rex pump comes standard with all Vortech #9 kits.
<small>[ May 09, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Jackyl_30 ]</small>
The 255L is supposed to be good for over 600 rwhp. Also if you look on Vortech website anyone runnning over 10 psi, it is recommended that you upgarde the in-tank pump. The T Rex pump comes standard with all Vortech #9 kits.
<small>[ May 09, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Jackyl_30 ]</small>
TECH Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 462
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From: ...
Re: Adding FI to my 422 I have a stock motor and I'm planning on geting Rob's turbo kit.
First off I have a problem with the cam bearings, the car doesn't hold oil pressure, so I'm having it taken apart to repair. I'm going to have it put back together with some stronger internals, such as valves. what else should I do? Better push rods and pistons?
First off I have a problem with the cam bearings, the car doesn't hold oil pressure, so I'm having it taken apart to repair. I'm going to have it put back together with some stronger internals, such as valves. what else should I do? Better push rods and pistons?