ATI pulleys for CHEAP!
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Maple Grove MN
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! Space the blower? This whole thing is starting to sound more and more complicated. <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: LS1.chat
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1slowCamaro:
<strong>Space the blower? This whole thing is starting to sound more and more complicated. <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course, I would imagine. You're adding width to the crank pulley so it's sticking out further with 8-ribs right. Well, you have to move the blower further back from the alternator to make up the difference.
I'm sure once we find out how much extra width 2 more ribs adds we can add that much spacing (shims) to the blower mounting bracket.
I hate to say it, but if this is complicated then I would definitely keep the stock setup.
I want an 8-rib 7.5"/3.6" for my own setup as a starting point to play with. No one else has to do it, I was just thinking outloud.
This whole idea is definitely not meant as a slap on for more boost unless you are just ultra quick to blow you motor up.
<strong>Space the blower? This whole thing is starting to sound more and more complicated. <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course, I would imagine. You're adding width to the crank pulley so it's sticking out further with 8-ribs right. Well, you have to move the blower further back from the alternator to make up the difference.
I'm sure once we find out how much extra width 2 more ribs adds we can add that much spacing (shims) to the blower mounting bracket.
I hate to say it, but if this is complicated then I would definitely keep the stock setup.
I want an 8-rib 7.5"/3.6" for my own setup as a starting point to play with. No one else has to do it, I was just thinking outloud.
This whole idea is definitely not meant as a slap on for more boost unless you are just ultra quick to blow you motor up.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: LS1.chat
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! Jay H. - If you are going to make a wider idler, you will have to ad width to the face of it (facing the engine) so when the bracket moves back (towards front of car), the idler will catch the inner (towards) engine part of the belt.
We need to think this out guys, so start thinking. I'm sure Jay isn't interested in making pulley's we can't use!
<img src="http://www.tech-ls1.com/extras/atiblower.jpg" alt=" - " />
We need to think this out guys, so start thinking. I'm sure Jay isn't interested in making pulley's we can't use!
<img src="http://www.tech-ls1.com/extras/atiblower.jpg" alt=" - " />
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From: the moon
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! spin the blower fast at lower engine rpms.
It will be a faster combo as long as your not over stalled on the converter or over cammed.
A lot of guys with ls1's run superchargers but many don't have a true supercharged powerband.
Running 5psi at 6500 engine rpm with a centrifugal is hardly what I call a blown motor.As boost is nonexistent down low.
I spin my vortech fast.
I get 5 or 6psi boost at only 1/2 throttle.That is what makes the motor fun!
I can even get into boost at 2000rpm.
The object is to spin the blower so it's always capable of pushing much more air than the engine can ingest N.A. at any given rpm, to build good fast boost.
If I had a Procharger I would run it at 15+psi tomorrow.I know my motor could hanldle it. 11psi is like a snooze in the park right now for it.
I run 11psi right now at only 6000-6100rpm with my vortech.That's even breathing through a stock factory paper airfilter! I know from experience that kills off at least 1.5lbs of boost it is so retrictive.
I plan on going with an even smaller pulley as I still have about 5000 blower rpm left.
I like the awesome low and midrange punch.I don't think I can get to much more out of it. But you guys with 1400cfm prochargers could really have a wicked midrange hit if you pulley it for 15-16psi at 6000rpm.
JAS are you listening? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Steve
It will be a faster combo as long as your not over stalled on the converter or over cammed.
A lot of guys with ls1's run superchargers but many don't have a true supercharged powerband.
Running 5psi at 6500 engine rpm with a centrifugal is hardly what I call a blown motor.As boost is nonexistent down low.
I spin my vortech fast.
I get 5 or 6psi boost at only 1/2 throttle.That is what makes the motor fun!
I can even get into boost at 2000rpm.
The object is to spin the blower so it's always capable of pushing much more air than the engine can ingest N.A. at any given rpm, to build good fast boost.
If I had a Procharger I would run it at 15+psi tomorrow.I know my motor could hanldle it. 11psi is like a snooze in the park right now for it.
I run 11psi right now at only 6000-6100rpm with my vortech.That's even breathing through a stock factory paper airfilter! I know from experience that kills off at least 1.5lbs of boost it is so retrictive.
I plan on going with an even smaller pulley as I still have about 5000 blower rpm left.
I like the awesome low and midrange punch.I don't think I can get to much more out of it. But you guys with 1400cfm prochargers could really have a wicked midrange hit if you pulley it for 15-16psi at 6000rpm.
JAS are you listening? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Steve
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From: LS1.chat
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! No one ever claimed you were sane Steve. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Reving the snot out of the motor is definitely a ton worse. I've even read that all things equal power wise, a blown motor is less stressful on parts then an N/A motor is. (Meaning: 490RWHP N/A motor vs 490rwhp blown motor)
The person who does have the motor for something like 15psi would have to be Michael. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I'm just a measly stock motor with stock replacement forged slugs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Reving the snot out of the motor is definitely a ton worse. I've even read that all things equal power wise, a blown motor is less stressful on parts then an N/A motor is. (Meaning: 490RWHP N/A motor vs 490rwhp blown motor)
The person who does have the motor for something like 15psi would have to be Michael. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I'm just a measly stock motor with stock replacement forged slugs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Tire Smoking Tranny Blowing Director
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From: Barto PA
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! First off I would like to say that is a great deal for parts but since your not a sponser on here I would ask that you have the members on here e-mail you details about this and remove the pricing. Other then that your cool here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> . Welcome to ls1tech <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
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From: the moon
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! JAS, 15psi is not that much. Your only looking at about 375hp or so over N.A. on your motor once it is tuned nicely.
<img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
Childs play...
Basically close to doubling the power a motor can make N.A. once you hit 15psi, minus blower drive loss and a few other little power robbing parasites like heat and friction etc.
So figure 85% more power produced.
lol, you'll never again think you have a powerful motor N.A. once you boost it way up.
It's addictive.
Had my blower scroll housing off once again last night for a bit more porting.
Trying to eek a tad more out flow of this G-trim vortech. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
Childs play...
Basically close to doubling the power a motor can make N.A. once you hit 15psi, minus blower drive loss and a few other little power robbing parasites like heat and friction etc.
So figure 85% more power produced.
lol, you'll never again think you have a powerful motor N.A. once you boost it way up.
It's addictive.
Had my blower scroll housing off once again last night for a bit more porting.
Trying to eek a tad more out flow of this G-trim vortech. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 289
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From: Wallingford, CT
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong>Mark C, in what way is "hard anodizing" different from the anodizing ATI is using now?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Normally, you anodize for corrosion protection and surface finish. You can put a pigment in for appearance , but you have not made the part any more durable. Its just a thin, cosmetic coating.
The treatment that I'm talking about penetrates the base metal by about 0.001 or more, and kind of forms a hard crust. Its used in jet engine applications where additional gaulling protection or the like is needed. Now, it does not make the aluminium any stronger, but the outer layer is in the neighbourhood of 60 Rockwell C or so, and is great for wear.
If you guys are experiencing wear issues on your aluminium pullies, this may be the ticket. Any anodize house familiar with aerospace work will know what I'm talking about. It might cost 5 or 10 more per part. I pulled that MIL designation off one of the drawings at work. I forgot the PWA or AMS designation. I don't work in that industry anymore.
<strong>Mark C, in what way is "hard anodizing" different from the anodizing ATI is using now?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Normally, you anodize for corrosion protection and surface finish. You can put a pigment in for appearance , but you have not made the part any more durable. Its just a thin, cosmetic coating.
The treatment that I'm talking about penetrates the base metal by about 0.001 or more, and kind of forms a hard crust. Its used in jet engine applications where additional gaulling protection or the like is needed. Now, it does not make the aluminium any stronger, but the outer layer is in the neighbourhood of 60 Rockwell C or so, and is great for wear.
If you guys are experiencing wear issues on your aluminium pullies, this may be the ticket. Any anodize house familiar with aerospace work will know what I'm talking about. It might cost 5 or 10 more per part. I pulled that MIL designation off one of the drawings at work. I forgot the PWA or AMS designation. I don't work in that industry anymore.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Maple Grove MN
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Justin, the 7.5"/3.2" would NOT be the best route for the majority of people. Actually, none of these 7.5" would unless you had a build motor. I was talking 7.5"/3.2" for my motor as an experiment. I will probably end up with a 7.5"/3.6" to meet goals. The 7.5"/3.2" would probably make CRAZY boost for our engines, 15psi+ is not more. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just had a thought. If your engine was turning 1300 less RPMs at a 50K blower speed than it was before then it would not make the same boost correct? I would think there would be more boost since the engine isnt ingesting as much air. To be more clear I'll put it this way:
-50K blower RPM at 6500RPM engine speed=approx 10psi
-50K blower RPM at 5200RPM engine speed=? must be more than 10psi right?
Now I understand what you're saying JAS. If I wanted to have 9psi at 5200 RPMs what setup would I go for? Any idea?
-50K blower RPM at 6500RPM engine speed=approx 10psi
-50K blower RPM at 5200RPM engine speed=? must be more than 10psi right?
Now I understand what you're saying JAS. If I wanted to have 9psi at 5200 RPMs what setup would I go for? Any idea?
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 289
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From: Wallingford, CT
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! I don't even own a supercharger, but I'm all for getting good parts cheap.
Did you investigate hard anodizing of the aluminium? Where I work, we have some parts finished per MIL-A-8625 Type III, Class I. It puts an extremely hard coating .0007 or so thick on the part. Its great for wear. Not so much for strength because its on top of the base 6061-T6. You might want to look at this as an alternative to steel.
Its also used in the aircraft industry for high wear aluminium parts.
Did you investigate hard anodizing of the aluminium? Where I work, we have some parts finished per MIL-A-8625 Type III, Class I. It puts an extremely hard coating .0007 or so thick on the part. Its great for wear. Not so much for strength because its on top of the base 6061-T6. You might want to look at this as an alternative to steel.
Its also used in the aircraft industry for high wear aluminium parts.
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! Forum director,
I understand that im not a sponsor and Maybe i shouldnt be throwing prices out but im just here to figure out this 8 rib setup. Its going to take a lot of opinons from alot of people to get it right. Furthermore im really not making any money on this, im just trying to help the people out that are going down the same road as I am. I will keep all my prices private. Cool?
Jay H.
I understand that im not a sponsor and Maybe i shouldnt be throwing prices out but im just here to figure out this 8 rib setup. Its going to take a lot of opinons from alot of people to get it right. Furthermore im really not making any money on this, im just trying to help the people out that are going down the same road as I am. I will keep all my prices private. Cool?
Jay H.
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! If i make the 8 rib setup its going to be right and you guys wont have to worry about making any other parts for it. Im going to design it this weekend to make it fit. I think ill just add a rib on each side of the existing 6. It will come with everything you need except the belt.
And yes its going to be hard anodized. I found a local shop to do it im just waiting on pricing.
Anodized Aluminum will be tough enough for this application to last a long time.
I dont have any steel idlers done yet. I might have some by next week.
the 8 rib setup is going to be pretty easy for me to make its just getting the dimensions for it, thats whats going to take the time. Im a class A machinist so i have what it takes to do it.
I think well just stick to the original design that ati has for the crank pulley (three pins). It would take to much R&D to change it plus all the added machine work.
I cut the keyway in the supercharger pulley last night. I measured runout on the blower and its .0001" witch is kick ***.
I just need you guys to make up your mind about pulley size (crank pulley mostly).
Later,
Jay H.
And yes its going to be hard anodized. I found a local shop to do it im just waiting on pricing.
Anodized Aluminum will be tough enough for this application to last a long time.
I dont have any steel idlers done yet. I might have some by next week.
the 8 rib setup is going to be pretty easy for me to make its just getting the dimensions for it, thats whats going to take the time. Im a class A machinist so i have what it takes to do it.
I think well just stick to the original design that ati has for the crank pulley (three pins). It would take to much R&D to change it plus all the added machine work.
I cut the keyway in the supercharger pulley last night. I measured runout on the blower and its .0001" witch is kick ***.
I just need you guys to make up your mind about pulley size (crank pulley mostly).
Later,
Jay H.
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From: LS1.chat
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by camarogod98:
<strong>If i make the 8 rib setup its going to be right and you guys wont have to worry about making any other parts for it. Im going to design it this weekend to make it fit. I think ill just add a rib on each side of the existing 6. It will come with everything you need except the belt.
...
Jay H.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jay, if you add a rib to each side of the pulley, it'll be difficult to figure out the spacing once it mounted. To get it to line up. Take a look at the picture and add the ribs to the facing end of the pulleys if you are mimicking factory design. This way we can just space the blower further back from the motor based on the added measurement of the two ribs to then end of the new crank pulley. If you add a rib to both ends of the crank, well then it won't sit right if you copy the design.
As far as the three pins, that's fine, I have a keyed crank. I don't like the long bolt method, but unless you get away from the stock damper, I can't think of another way.
<strong>If i make the 8 rib setup its going to be right and you guys wont have to worry about making any other parts for it. Im going to design it this weekend to make it fit. I think ill just add a rib on each side of the existing 6. It will come with everything you need except the belt.
...
Jay H.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jay, if you add a rib to each side of the pulley, it'll be difficult to figure out the spacing once it mounted. To get it to line up. Take a look at the picture and add the ribs to the facing end of the pulleys if you are mimicking factory design. This way we can just space the blower further back from the motor based on the added measurement of the two ribs to then end of the new crank pulley. If you add a rib to both ends of the crank, well then it won't sit right if you copy the design.
As far as the three pins, that's fine, I have a keyed crank. I don't like the long bolt method, but unless you get away from the stock damper, I can't think of another way.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: LS1.chat
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
...
I just need you guys to make up your mind about pulley size (crank pulley mostly).
Later,
Jay H.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jay, I'm up for the 7.5"/3.6" if the price is right.
Do you know if there is clearance around the blower for a 5"+ pulley for the guys wanting stock levels of boost?
...
I just need you guys to make up your mind about pulley size (crank pulley mostly).
Later,
Jay H.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jay, I'm up for the 7.5"/3.6" if the price is right.
Do you know if there is clearance around the blower for a 5"+ pulley for the guys wanting stock levels of boost?
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 62
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From: kansas city, MO
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ATMER:
<strong>How about an 8 rib setup for a C5 Vette?
As for belts, try Whipplesupercharger.com.
They have belts from 20" up in 1" increments and any number of ribs. Kinda expensive though, but their probably the only game in town.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">8 rib for a C5, I would be interested also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong>How about an 8 rib setup for a C5 Vette?
As for belts, try Whipplesupercharger.com.
They have belts from 20" up in 1" increments and any number of ribs. Kinda expensive though, but their probably the only game in town.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">8 rib for a C5, I would be interested also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! Yeah i can make a C5 vette setup. I cant get my hands on vette because im to poor.lol Witch means that getting the right dimensions will be entirely up to you. You get me the print and ill make the parts.
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From: LS1.chat
Re: ATI pulleys for CHEAP! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SJH:
<strong>sway bar?
Vortech uses a 8" pulley and has no issues.
Get off the crack pipe JAS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shows how long the sway bars been off, don't even remember where it goes... LOLs
<small>[ October 23, 2002, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: JAS ]</small>
<strong>sway bar?
Vortech uses a 8" pulley and has no issues.
Get off the crack pipe JAS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shows how long the sway bars been off, don't even remember where it goes... LOLs
<small>[ October 23, 2002, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: JAS ]</small>