Why do supercharged cars seem slow???
10-27-2005, 10:12 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by ddnspider
id partially agree with that.a stroker will obviously have more area under the curve than a regular 346 H/C car would and probably a turbo stock car.....but a 346 H/C car making 500rwhp is going to rev really, high more than likely, to make those numbers;whereas a 346 with a mild cam and a turbo or s/c setup wont have to rev as high to make that power so it SHOULD be faster....my personal favorite is a H/C stroker turbo motor 
Agreed. Yeah, a 346 H/C LS1 has no business getting a faster time and speed over a 346 FI LS1... on paper. The fact that many FI applied LS1's get the same or slower times definitely has to do with the driver's goals. I'm a perfect example. I shooting for 500 rwhp and I'll be lucky if I see 11's because I'm keeping street tires AND like somebody said, I'm a highway freak, too... Love the turnpike!
10-27-2005, 11:30 PM
#23
most centrifugal blower motors make their peak power for about 50 rpms (not a typo) before they have to shift. this is untill they match it to a proper converter and transmission liek i did. my area under the curve is awesome with the 4800 stall.
10-28-2005, 06:29 AM
#24
Our '95 Formula LT1 has an ATI ProCharger P-1SC on an internally stock engine. This car was purchased new back in '96, and currently only has 5,000 miles on it. With a power absorbing 4000 stall converter, we are only seeing 360 some horsepower out of it on my Mustang Chassis Dyno. The car has headers, exhaust, and the chassis is built with BMR and Spohn. The car still has the air conditioning, etc.
We ran 11.33 at 118 mph the other night on a slippery track with 1.54 and 1.56 60 ft times. Bob
We ran 11.33 at 118 mph the other night on a slippery track with 1.54 and 1.56 60 ft times. Bob
10-28-2005, 09:06 AM
#25
I posted a couple dyno graphs a while back of my old 414 solid roller car and this one (D1/346) and the horspower curve was very close through a TH400 9". Except the 414 needed to be wound up to 7200rpm and this one 6600.
It all depends on what you want to do with the car, as far as I know there arent too many 3300lb 346 inch n/a cars (except maybe Allan Frutrals) that run as fast as my car has and mine is about as mild a motor as you can possibly get. I choose to let the blower do the work, thats its job
There is no magic with getting good ETs, most people are happy with big dyno numbers and blasting on the highway and thats just fine. Its your money and your car and the whole thing is supposed to be FUN, not worrying about what the other guy is doing
It all depends on what you want to do with the car, as far as I know there arent too many 3300lb 346 inch n/a cars (except maybe Allan Frutrals) that run as fast as my car has and mine is about as mild a motor as you can possibly get. I choose to let the blower do the work, thats its job
There is no magic with getting good ETs, most people are happy with big dyno numbers and blasting on the highway and thats just fine. Its your money and your car and the whole thing is supposed to be FUN, not worrying about what the other guy is doing
10-29-2005, 04:42 PM
#26
I used to see some head/cam/long tube bolt on cars run supercharged cars and usually won.I think at lower boost levels the NA cars would have an advantage but once you start going forged internals and big boost from superchargers or turbos then the forced induction are way way faster and more powerful than NA cars. An Na car can't get over 1000 hp like forced induction can.Boost and airflow wins out over high compression and crazy cams and the forced induction cars are much much more driveable usually.Also lots of forced induction guys aren't into quartermile stuff more into highway and handling and that type of stuff I think. For turbo cars to be fast at 1/4 usually need drag tires, stall converter or a two step launch system if manual and of course high hp clutches ,suspension stuff..etc.
Similar needs for supercharged but don't need two step in manual cars ,still can use a good stall in autos and drag tires.
I have ridden in ati lt1s and sts lt1s and fast NA ls1s ,haven't been in super or turboed ls1 yet. I can assure you that neither the turbo lt1 or the ati lt1 was slow and both were near stock other than the power adders. Buddies 430 rwhp NA LS1 did beat the guy with the ati lt1 several times racing. The ati lt1 guy got pissed a bit and built a 383 with nitrous sold off his ati.
I think some NA cars might have more area under the curve than the superchargers but doubt that any NA or super car has more area under the curve than a turbo car. Turbos come in lower than supers with full boost to redline. Most centrificals come in as function of rpm. On the track though once revved up the supers and turbos both seem to do great. Assuming they can get traction.
We have a twin turbo 2nd gen bird at our track that runs not the best et..think saw it go 10.5 or something but it did like 135mph on street tires. It can blow drag tires pretty bad and think it has over 1000hp..its Big Block Chevy with twin turbos..ghetto job but still..huge power..Its certainly not slow but also not optimized for the track. Not sure if he even has a stall on there.
Similar needs for supercharged but don't need two step in manual cars ,still can use a good stall in autos and drag tires.
I have ridden in ati lt1s and sts lt1s and fast NA ls1s ,haven't been in super or turboed ls1 yet. I can assure you that neither the turbo lt1 or the ati lt1 was slow and both were near stock other than the power adders. Buddies 430 rwhp NA LS1 did beat the guy with the ati lt1 several times racing. The ati lt1 guy got pissed a bit and built a 383 with nitrous sold off his ati.
I think some NA cars might have more area under the curve than the superchargers but doubt that any NA or super car has more area under the curve than a turbo car. Turbos come in lower than supers with full boost to redline. Most centrificals come in as function of rpm. On the track though once revved up the supers and turbos both seem to do great. Assuming they can get traction.
We have a twin turbo 2nd gen bird at our track that runs not the best et..think saw it go 10.5 or something but it did like 135mph on street tires. It can blow drag tires pretty bad and think it has over 1000hp..its Big Block Chevy with twin turbos..ghetto job but still..huge power..Its certainly not slow but also not optimized for the track. Not sure if he even has a stall on there.
10-29-2005, 06:02 PM
#27
Originally Posted by ddnspider
id partially agree with that.a stroker will obviously have more area under the curve than a regular 346 H/C car would and probably a turbo stock car.....but a 346 H/C car making 500rwhp is going to rev really, high more than likely, to make those numbers;whereas a 346 with a mild cam and a turbo or s/c setup wont have to rev as high to make that power so it SHOULD be faster....my personal favorite is a H/C stroker turbo motor
10-29-2005, 11:01 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
This thread generalizes too much.
Many hardcore track racers see a badass H/C nitrous set up and drool. Then, they don't respect a Turbo LS1 set-up when they see one, they criticize it, or say they don't hook or that they lag, blah blah blah.
On the streets, then it's the reverse... at least around here.
Of course, true LS1 enthusiasts are more than well aware of the amazing potential of FI for LSX motors.
10-29-2005, 11:04 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by ddnspider
im right there with you...shooting for 600rwhp and rolling on 245/45/18's w street tires,im hoping for 11.5 on street tires though so guess well see.
HA, and you know some redneck will look at the 11.5 light up and tell his friends, "Aww... that's slow for a turbo! See, they just weren't meant for it. My friends 5.0 has bolt-ons, NO interior, and runs faster! Yeah, now pass me a Busch Light."
