Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo PSJ, I do realize that this is LS1 Tech, and that your goal here may well be to stick with an LS1.
BUT, if you are looking for some serious power out of a turbo setup, are you 100% certain that you want to stay with an LS1 based motor?
A small ci SBC motor with a stand-alone engine/fuel management system might be fun, or you could consider a Stage 2 buick setup. There are a few top notch S2 buick motors not attached to cars at the moment floating around Chitown (I know where a couple of them are but not sure if the guy will sell).
A nice S2 buick plant with twin 6Xmm or 7Xmm turbos and the proper trans should put you in the 1100+ hp range and in the 8s (low 8s possibily at the right weight) if you can get traction.
Just a thought. I know I've seen at least one 4th gen with a buick turbo 6 in it.
BUT, if you are looking for some serious power out of a turbo setup, are you 100% certain that you want to stay with an LS1 based motor?
A small ci SBC motor with a stand-alone engine/fuel management system might be fun, or you could consider a Stage 2 buick setup. There are a few top notch S2 buick motors not attached to cars at the moment floating around Chitown (I know where a couple of them are but not sure if the guy will sell).
A nice S2 buick plant with twin 6Xmm or 7Xmm turbos and the proper trans should put you in the 1100+ hp range and in the 8s (low 8s possibily at the right weight) if you can get traction.
Just a thought. I know I've seen at least one 4th gen with a buick turbo 6 in it.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo I dont like either option you have listed.
Why a single supercharger vs. two turbos?
Just put a 91mm Thumper on there and call it a day. Have a stout shortblock put together, put a FAST or DFI gen 7 on it, liquid intercooler and a good trans/converter combo and you'll have solid 8 second combination if you can keep it from lifting the heads.
Supercharger you are going to have the problems that Charlie mentioned. Its the reason I decided to switch from a supercharger to a turbocharger.
Good luck <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Why a single supercharger vs. two turbos?
Just put a 91mm Thumper on there and call it a day. Have a stout shortblock put together, put a FAST or DFI gen 7 on it, liquid intercooler and a good trans/converter combo and you'll have solid 8 second combination if you can keep it from lifting the heads.
Supercharger you are going to have the problems that Charlie mentioned. Its the reason I decided to switch from a supercharger to a turbocharger.
Good luck <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,048
Likes: 12
From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo If a 422 is not too exotic for this project, it makes MAD torque BEFORE Forced Induction! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Make sure it has the light-weight forged internals and proper head/cam combo to let it rev at least to 7 grand, and let an ATI F2 take it to about 15 PSI of boost (you'd probably need the o-ringing job, studs to replace the head bolts and cometic gaskets to avoid lifting or warping the heads).
Of course, you will need the fuel system to feed it. That's MY problem, right now! <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />
Sounds like FUN! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> This should be interesting to watch! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Of course, you will need the fuel system to feed it. That's MY problem, right now! <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />
Sounds like FUN! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> This should be interesting to watch! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 289
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From: Dallas, Tx
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Are you going to be using a stock computer setup? If so, go with a blower. The constant boost curve is alot easier to tune with once you get into the higher HP. If you want to be fast, with a quiet car...get a turbo and gen 7 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Chris
Chris
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo What do you want out of your new set up? The fastest car on the board? Is money no object?
<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: dug ]</small>
<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: dug ]</small>
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Go for one big gun like a T-88 or something on those lines. I have seen plenty of GN's in the nines on less turbo than that, if it's going to be a drag car, you can set it up with proper stall and a brake so that it beats the spool time advantage of the twins. If you are street racing, then that is probably another story...
-Geoff
-Geoff
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 595
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From: Lincolnwood IL
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo I voted for the turbo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
...It just sounds cool to say you own a TWIN TURBO Firebird <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" />
...It just sounds cool to say you own a TWIN TURBO Firebird <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" />
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo I'd vote, but the choices suck. Why go with a YS and a water/air? Thats a little race-only for a dude like you. And if youre going that far...single turbo...you'll have the same amount of fitment issues <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Twins are cool, but we want to see something different....and faster than Tony this time 
PTE-88? Check BMR's car for the cool intercooler set up.
PTE-88? Check BMR's car for the cool intercooler set up. 
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 45,338
Likes: 1,770
From: Chicago, IL
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Thanks very much for your voting.
There are a number of awesome turbo setups coming out this year. I look forward to seeing Harl's car again this year, but also Rob Raymer's car and then some of the newer builds.
We have decided however, that there is a void.
There are no fast supercharged LS1 cars.
On that note, We are going to build stock cube 346ci LS1 with 6.0 heads and run a Vortech YS trim. We will be working with Vortech Engineering and several other companies to build what is hopefully a mid 9 second car. We plan to debut the car officially at the North vs South Shootout.
If the car does not run 9's at that shootout, and you voted turbo, please come up to me and I will buy you a beer. Or I will bring about ten cases of beer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
There are a number of awesome turbo setups coming out this year. I look forward to seeing Harl's car again this year, but also Rob Raymer's car and then some of the newer builds.
We have decided however, that there is a void.
There are no fast supercharged LS1 cars.
On that note, We are going to build stock cube 346ci LS1 with 6.0 heads and run a Vortech YS trim. We will be working with Vortech Engineering and several other companies to build what is hopefully a mid 9 second car. We plan to debut the car officially at the North vs South Shootout.
If the car does not run 9's at that shootout, and you voted turbo, please come up to me and I will buy you a beer. Or I will bring about ten cases of beer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo you should do twin g-trims. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I wouldnt be that hard, right? two used head units and some custom mounts/brackets/pulleys.
I wouldnt be that hard, right? two used head units and some custom mounts/brackets/pulleys.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,308
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Good luck John! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
See ya in the rearview. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
See ya in the rearview. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,308
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo The track down in Cincinnati opens in under 2 weeks here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'll be testing n tuning after that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryan:
<strong> you should do twin g-trims. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I wouldnt be that hard, right? two used head units and some custom mounts/brackets/pulleys. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">single blowers are for pu$$ies.
<strong> you should do twin g-trims. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I wouldnt be that hard, right? two used head units and some custom mounts/brackets/pulleys. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">single blowers are for pu$$ies.
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Mid 9's? I think BigBos was claiming he was
going to run that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Best of luck,John.
Do yourself a favor-
DON'T skimp on parts.
Spend the money the FIRST time and do it right.
I think you already know this,though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
going to run that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Best of luck,John.
Do yourself a favor-
DON'T skimp on parts.
Spend the money the FIRST time and do it right.
I think you already know this,though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 45,338
Likes: 1,770
From: Chicago, IL
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo I'm not looking to lock horns with BigBos, I don't mind being #2.
I'm ordering pistons and rods in the next two days.
I'm ordering pistons and rods in the next two days.
Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Right on John,
Glad you are going with the blower. Look to be the same as far as progress on the build tho. I have the rods, new block and my set of 6.0 heads came in today(thanks Formulation) Pistons and rings are next and off to the machine shop she goes for assembly. I will be running 15psi or other combinations. I will be a fast S/Ced car (always have been) but the altitude I'm at makes me a .8-.9tenths of a sec slower than the rest of you bottom feeders.
So far money spent
Eagle rods $370
6.0 heads $450
Block $600
Talk about your budget HP, 600rw+ soon.
J <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
old PD times 12.1@117mph
new ATI 9psi will know on March 2nd
New ATI 348in combo?????
Glad you are going with the blower. Look to be the same as far as progress on the build tho. I have the rods, new block and my set of 6.0 heads came in today(thanks Formulation) Pistons and rings are next and off to the machine shop she goes for assembly. I will be running 15psi or other combinations. I will be a fast S/Ced car (always have been) but the altitude I'm at makes me a .8-.9tenths of a sec slower than the rest of you bottom feeders.
So far money spent
Eagle rods $370
6.0 heads $450
Block $600
Talk about your budget HP, 600rw+ soon.
J <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
old PD times 12.1@117mph
new ATI 9psi will know on March 2nd
New ATI 348in combo?????