When are we going to start running awesome FI setups?
03-23-2003, 10:25 PM
#21
Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? Yes the 03 Cobra was built for boost and our cars were not.. There are also other stangs that were not built for boost and they have very nice boost setups.. Yes ford does have a better aftermarket following than we do, but I think we should have accomplished more by now.. I remember when I first purchased my car I wanted to go boost, but I was talked out of it because many were having problems. There was not enough research done at that time. As many engineers we have on this board you would think someone would have designed something that could support 600rwhp plus.. So far we have one 346-348ci that has done it.. I am hoping to see more real soon.. Personally, if 5 people do not roll around with reliable 600rwhp setups by X-mas I am going to have FMS build me a 434ci Solid Roller setup and spray it.. As to the comment about fast mod cars out there NA.. I read Fast Fords and they do have some mid to low 11's NA trim..
03-23-2003, 11:05 PM
#22
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Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? Vince
I forgot I have to watch my "tone" on a board like this. People tend to get offended easily (not directed towards you). My previous post was not a flame, bash or whatever, just so its clear.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> As many engineers we have on this board you would think someone would have designed something that could support 600rwhp plus.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hear ya but you also got to keep in mind that R&D costs a lot of money and time. A luxury some shops don't really have or the money to afford a good engineer. I have been apart of a couple of R&D projects (not automotive related) and there was a quote by Einstien (sp?) that summed it up nicely "if we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be called research". I got a chuckle out of it but its very true.
Not to many people have money to fund a project thats going to cost $20K-$30K to complete and are diehard enthusiasts.
I read MM&FF to. Is it just me or does just about every stang have a centri SC in that mag? In fact I am looking for a fox-bod to put a turbo system on. Maybe I'm a "boostaholic" or something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
I forgot I have to watch my "tone" on a board like this. People tend to get offended easily (not directed towards you). My previous post was not a flame, bash or whatever, just so its clear.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> As many engineers we have on this board you would think someone would have designed something that could support 600rwhp plus.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hear ya but you also got to keep in mind that R&D costs a lot of money and time. A luxury some shops don't really have or the money to afford a good engineer. I have been apart of a couple of R&D projects (not automotive related) and there was a quote by Einstien (sp?) that summed it up nicely "if we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be called research". I got a chuckle out of it but its very true.
Not to many people have money to fund a project thats going to cost $20K-$30K to complete and are diehard enthusiasts.
I read MM&FF to. Is it just me or does just about every stang have a centri SC in that mag? In fact I am looking for a fox-bod to put a turbo system on. Maybe I'm a "boostaholic" or something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
03-24-2003, 12:02 AM
#23
Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? Please keep us posted.. It seems that most of us are having problems just running over 10lbs of boost.. By now we should have many 600rwhp plus cars on the street that are daily drivers and reliable.. I go to the C5 forums and they seem to accomplish 600rwhp plus on 8 and 9lbs of boost.. What is it with our f-bodies..? It seems we cant get a simple supercharger to run around those #'s w/out having constant issues.. Someone help me understand.. Why is 600rwhp so difficult to make reliable?
03-24-2003, 12:17 AM
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Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by t-76Y2KSS:
<strong> I think it will last for a long time.All upgrades currently available are being used,9/16 studs top and bottom,copper gaskets forged internals o-ringed block heads cyroed and welded deck surface.Most people having issues are not pro tuners,DIYers in uncharted waters.I know people running mid 7s(non ls1)using similar stuff,they have excellent reliability for what it is.I guess well all see soon enough,I will keep everyone posted track times,any issues etc. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">a lot of that stuff isn't needed if the cam is designed correctly....harlan and many 5.0 guys have proved that by bleeding off some cylinder pressure you will save yourself a lot of trouble of head/headgasket issues and you can make up the power with a few more lbs of boost...dont know why more aren't trying to go this way
<strong> I think it will last for a long time.All upgrades currently available are being used,9/16 studs top and bottom,copper gaskets forged internals o-ringed block heads cyroed and welded deck surface.Most people having issues are not pro tuners,DIYers in uncharted waters.I know people running mid 7s(non ls1)using similar stuff,they have excellent reliability for what it is.I guess well all see soon enough,I will keep everyone posted track times,any issues etc. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">a lot of that stuff isn't needed if the cam is designed correctly....harlan and many 5.0 guys have proved that by bleeding off some cylinder pressure you will save yourself a lot of trouble of head/headgasket issues and you can make up the power with a few more lbs of boost...dont know why more aren't trying to go this way
03-24-2003, 12:31 AM
#25
Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? Jimmy the setup I am going with is going to bleed off some major cylinder pressure.. I just want to see some other guys run good setups for atleast a couple of months.. I know a car with real good power is going to have some issues, but I think we are having more than normal issues.. Our Ford Brethren seem to be able to roll around on 600rwhp plus with no problems. Actually they have a lot of 700rwhp cars rolling around on the street. Putting that horsepower down seems to be the problem..
03-24-2003, 10:10 AM
#26
Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? You are dead on about the stangs and the centri SC.. I also would like to build a fox body lx notchback and put crazy boost on her... I just my car to stay streetable. I have friends with high horsepower stangs and their cars ride pretty good for 600rwhp.. I want the same..
03-24-2003, 11:28 AM
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Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong> Yes the 03 Cobra was built for boost and our cars were not.. There are also other stangs that were not built for boost and they have very nice boost setups.. Yes ford does have a better aftermarket following than we do, but I think we should have accomplished more by now.. I remember when I first purchased my car I wanted to go boost, but I was talked out of it because many were having problems. There was not enough research done at that time. As many engineers we have on this board you would think someone would have designed something that could support 600rwhp plus.. So far we have one 346-348ci that has done it.. I am hoping to see more real soon.. Personally, if 5 people do not roll around with reliable 600rwhp setups by X-mas I am going to have FMS build me a 434ci Solid Roller setup and spray it.. As to the comment about fast mod cars out there NA.. I read Fast Fords and they do have some mid to low 11's NA trim.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My opinion on why there has been really no show of vendor support for this is simple. Everyone began focusing on the engine and who could design a better cam. Thunder Racing came out with a cam that had shown up to 400hp on a stock headed car. Well everyone else for whatever reason decided they could build a better cam and this big ole bandwagon of who can build a better cam or design a better head or build a better stroker began. FI tech got put on the backburner for most of the vendors. Heck in my opinion this is the right way to do it. Figure out how to get the engine running the best it can in NA form then figure out how to force more power into it. I just don't like doing things the right way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
Adam J
<strong> Yes the 03 Cobra was built for boost and our cars were not.. There are also other stangs that were not built for boost and they have very nice boost setups.. Yes ford does have a better aftermarket following than we do, but I think we should have accomplished more by now.. I remember when I first purchased my car I wanted to go boost, but I was talked out of it because many were having problems. There was not enough research done at that time. As many engineers we have on this board you would think someone would have designed something that could support 600rwhp plus.. So far we have one 346-348ci that has done it.. I am hoping to see more real soon.. Personally, if 5 people do not roll around with reliable 600rwhp setups by X-mas I am going to have FMS build me a 434ci Solid Roller setup and spray it.. As to the comment about fast mod cars out there NA.. I read Fast Fords and they do have some mid to low 11's NA trim.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My opinion on why there has been really no show of vendor support for this is simple. Everyone began focusing on the engine and who could design a better cam. Thunder Racing came out with a cam that had shown up to 400hp on a stock headed car. Well everyone else for whatever reason decided they could build a better cam and this big ole bandwagon of who can build a better cam or design a better head or build a better stroker began. FI tech got put on the backburner for most of the vendors. Heck in my opinion this is the right way to do it. Figure out how to get the engine running the best it can in NA form then figure out how to force more power into it. I just don't like doing things the right way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
Adam J
03-24-2003, 03:09 PM
#28
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Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? Good point, FI took the backseat for two reasons...
1) The LS1 is a great NA motor.
2) As usual it took two years for the aftermarket to produce LS1 FI kits... That's not unusual at all, the LT1 cars did not get superchargers until like 1996 and the motor had been out for almost four years.
I think 600rwhp is very doable I would run dual intanks.
For a drag car I'd run a fuel system.
1) The LS1 is a great NA motor.
2) As usual it took two years for the aftermarket to produce LS1 FI kits... That's not unusual at all, the LT1 cars did not get superchargers until like 1996 and the motor had been out for almost four years.
I think 600rwhp is very doable I would run dual intanks.
For a drag car I'd run a fuel system.
03-24-2003, 03:28 PM
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Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? Best of luck with your project PSJ, it is nice to see another member do it the right way instead of make compromises that bite them in the *** later.
I chose to stay NA because the power is there for me on motor and I am a firm believer in keeping things as simple as possible to meet your goal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I chose to stay NA because the power is there for me on motor and I am a firm believer in keeping things as simple as possible to meet your goal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
03-24-2003, 03:57 PM
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Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? PSJ,
Why did you decide to do this, and not run a nitrous setup? Or not a turbo setup?
Seems with belt slippage, centrifugal superchargers are more problems then they are worth.
Why did you decide to do this, and not run a nitrous setup? Or not a turbo setup?
Seems with belt slippage, centrifugal superchargers are more problems then they are worth.
03-24-2003, 05:43 PM
#31
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Re: When are we going to start running awesome FI setups? To me nitrous is all about running a number.
Turbos are very cool, but my best support locally was for a centrifrugal supercharger.
I have two friends running Vortech YS trims.
The record for a blower car is like a 10.7@127mph.
It's 10.1@138mph with nitrous. But that's dual power adder.
With my upcoming setup all I need is a cam change to start converting over to turbos.
Belt slippage, well, most of the folks if not all complaining about that have ATI kits. All of the Vortech stuff is 8 rib and it DOES make a difference at higher power levels.
I'm heavily researching ideal belt tension too. My conjecture is that most folks are trying to make 15psi with 6 ribs and with inadequate tensioner setups so there are two reasons why it doesn't happen.
I'm shooting for 20 lbs of boost but I'm sure the car will be somewhere in the teens during a lot of the initial testing.
My goal is a setup that can take 300 passes a year.
Turbos are very cool, but my best support locally was for a centrifrugal supercharger.
I have two friends running Vortech YS trims.
The record for a blower car is like a 10.7@127mph.
It's 10.1@138mph with nitrous. But that's dual power adder.
With my upcoming setup all I need is a cam change to start converting over to turbos.
Belt slippage, well, most of the folks if not all complaining about that have ATI kits. All of the Vortech stuff is 8 rib and it DOES make a difference at higher power levels.
I'm heavily researching ideal belt tension too. My conjecture is that most folks are trying to make 15psi with 6 ribs and with inadequate tensioner setups so there are two reasons why it doesn't happen.
I'm shooting for 20 lbs of boost but I'm sure the car will be somewhere in the teens during a lot of the initial testing.
My goal is a setup that can take 300 passes a year.
