Guys with manual boost controllers
Guys with manual boost controllers ive got a turbosmart dual stage boost controller.It was previously hooked up with the side port on the Tial WG going to a source before the TB and the top port goes to a T which goes to the controller and the brake booster.The car wouldnt make more than about 7-8 psi,even when i cranked on both *****.I have a 7psi spring in the WG.So i did some searching and found another way to connect it via SR71's recommendation.so now top port is just vented and side port goes to a T which goes to the controller/brake booster.Now the car makes too much boost even with the ***** closed it'll hit 10-11 psi.I obviously let out before letting it go higher.Anyone have any idea of whats wrong?all references are solid.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
It might also depend how you have the controller configured, and the solenoid plumbed...Sometimes you use common and NO, or NC, depending when the controller bleeds of, or sends signal to the w/g
Some controllers require different plumbing if its an actuator style w/g ( internal ) or poppet style, external w/g
generally speaking...if the top port of the w/g is open.
If you blow boost straight into the bottom port ( or side perhaps ) of the w/g, you should end up with a very low boost setting, as the boost will blow open the poppet valve ( against spring pressure )
If you blow no air into this port ( or block/bleed some off via a controller ), you would end up with a higher boost setting..
If spring only, with no boost either side doesnt allow you to run enough boost.....
Blow boost into the top port, to hold the w/g shut. Configure the controller to bleed boost off here, to reduce the boost setting ( kind of works backwards, but can be very effective, as long as everything works properly )
Some controllers require different plumbing if its an actuator style w/g ( internal ) or poppet style, external w/g
generally speaking...if the top port of the w/g is open.
If you blow boost straight into the bottom port ( or side perhaps ) of the w/g, you should end up with a very low boost setting, as the boost will blow open the poppet valve ( against spring pressure )
If you blow no air into this port ( or block/bleed some off via a controller ), you would end up with a higher boost setting..
If spring only, with no boost either side doesnt allow you to run enough boost.....
Blow boost into the top port, to hold the w/g shut. Configure the controller to bleed boost off here, to reduce the boost setting ( kind of works backwards, but can be very effective, as long as everything works properly )
My manual boost controller is like the pressure regulator on an air compressor. You crank it fully Counter Clockwise and there is no out put pressure, fully clock wise and it passes full inlet pressure.
That being said, with my external WG. I run a line from the manifold directly to the bottom of my WG. Then I run an other line from the manifold to the controller then the top port of the WG.
With the controller fully C-C, my boost is limited to the spring pressure of the WG. When I turn the controller Clockwise, it raises the pressure going to the top port thus reducing the DP across the top and bottom, therefore raising the boost pressure before the WG opens.
Ryan K.
That being said, with my external WG. I run a line from the manifold directly to the bottom of my WG. Then I run an other line from the manifold to the controller then the top port of the WG.
With the controller fully C-C, my boost is limited to the spring pressure of the WG. When I turn the controller Clockwise, it raises the pressure going to the top port thus reducing the DP across the top and bottom, therefore raising the boost pressure before the WG opens.
Ryan K.
hmmm i'm gonna give Ryans method a try...I have my hallman MBC inline with my boost reference(compressor housing) to the side port with the top port vented. Can't make over 9psi that way, or any other way I hooked it up.
Originally Posted by Ryan K
My manual boost controller is like the pressure regulator on an air compressor. You crank it fully Counter Clockwise and there is no out put pressure, fully clock wise and it passes full inlet pressure.
That being said, with my external WG. I run a line from the manifold directly to the bottom of my WG. Then I run an other line from the manifold to the controller then the top port of the WG.
With the controller fully C-C, my boost is limited to the spring pressure of the WG. When I turn the controller Clockwise, it raises the pressure going to the top port thus reducing the DP across the top and bottom, therefore raising the boost pressure before the WG opens.
Ryan K.
That being said, with my external WG. I run a line from the manifold directly to the bottom of my WG. Then I run an other line from the manifold to the controller then the top port of the WG.
With the controller fully C-C, my boost is limited to the spring pressure of the WG. When I turn the controller Clockwise, it raises the pressure going to the top port thus reducing the DP across the top and bottom, therefore raising the boost pressure before the WG opens.
Ryan K.
IDEA....what would happen if the top port was T'd to the BB and the controller and the side port was vented????nothing else has worked to control boost so what about that?
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
Originally Posted by ddnspider
IDEA....what would happen if the top port was T'd to the BB and the controller and the side port was vented????nothing else has worked to control boost so what about that?
Read my last post, it explains the basic operation of the wastegate.
A)
If you connect a compressor boost source to the bottom port of the w/g, how much boost do you have ?
eg if 10psi is measuered, then that would be minium setting possible ( without mechanical spring softenting )....so bleeding off signal via a MBC, will increase guage boost, to a maximum that would be achieved in B) below.
B)
If you leave it disconnected, so the w/g gets no signal at all....how much boost do you have ?? This could potentially be a lot...depending on spring.
C)
If neither of those give you sufficient boost, most likely due to soft spring, blow a compressor boost source into the top of the w/g. That WILL allow it to create a lot of boost as its effectively blowing the w/g shut all the time ( be very careful with that method though )
With a solid compressor boost source blowing into the top of the w/g, you will get massive boost.
So, bleed signal off this line via a MBC or EBC, and you will be approaching boost setting in B, above, when you have bled off all of the signal ( or blocked it )
ok so i just set it up like Ryan stated and i had to let out cause i was hitting 10psi and rising with the 2 ***** turned fully counter clockwise.top port was T'd and bottom port goes to the intake.
when i was just using the spring and a reference to the intake it stayed rock solid at about 7psi,ie my spring pressure
when i was just using the spring and a reference to the intake it stayed rock solid at about 7psi,ie my spring pressure
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This is how mine is done, ignore the "vent". there is no vent when using a BC. http://www.tialsport.com/documents/w..._wginstall.pdf
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Verdad Gallardo actually, it restricts the air to the "vent" side of the WG. All a MBC is is just a air pressure controller. I have the same EXACT thing on my air compressor. My system has NO vent and works perfectly fine. Ill see if the directions are online.
Countryboy i originally had it hooked up that way via that diagram and it wouldnt control boost.It shouldnt matter if the reference is b4 or after the TB right,boost is boost is the way i understand that referencing
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
Normally the boost source sould be taken as close to the compressor as possible. Thats why most turbos have an outlet built into the compressor housing..
Taking a boost source from the intake, can cause erratic boost control, or surging up and down.
Not always, but in some cases. Every setup can be different.
If there is no vent, you cannot bluff the w/g signal into staying closed, in order to raise the boost pressure.
Some pneumatic pressure relief valves have a built in vent that isnt always visible.
Some styles simply do not allow air to pass, until a certain pressure is reached. If you were to use this style, then there must be a vent somewhere in the system, otherwise once the pressure had built up, the w/g would stay open, as the air cant escape.
The TN one you link just looks like any pneumatic regulator. Ive used Norgren one on a few cars. If you combine it with one that also blocks the signal until, pre-determined setting, it can help with spool.
Here is a very old article, explaining the setup ( you may need to be an autospeed subscriber )
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_...ntArticle.html
It is a decent setup, but nowhere as good as an EBC, and more time consuming to setup effectively.
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_0670/article.html
Taking a boost source from the intake, can cause erratic boost control, or surging up and down.
Not always, but in some cases. Every setup can be different.
If there is no vent, you cannot bluff the w/g signal into staying closed, in order to raise the boost pressure.
Some pneumatic pressure relief valves have a built in vent that isnt always visible.
Some styles simply do not allow air to pass, until a certain pressure is reached. If you were to use this style, then there must be a vent somewhere in the system, otherwise once the pressure had built up, the w/g would stay open, as the air cant escape.
The TN one you link just looks like any pneumatic regulator. Ive used Norgren one on a few cars. If you combine it with one that also blocks the signal until, pre-determined setting, it can help with spool.
Here is a very old article, explaining the setup ( you may need to be an autospeed subscriber )
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_...ntArticle.html
It is a decent setup, but nowhere as good as an EBC, and more time consuming to setup effectively.
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_0670/article.html
Last edited by stevieturbo; Jan 6, 2007 at 12:32 PM.