What should my build be?
Teching In
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 34
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From: J-actionville
Originally Posted by Brad Hutchcraft
well... not many roots blowers are avalaible for the F body, and they have a hard time fitting in the engine bay... Maybe if he was driving a Mustang, or a corvette, but its an F body.... Add up the combo you were just talking about... roots blower, forged bottom end, heads, cam, Headers, Exhaust, Fuel system, tranny, Rear, Suspension, tires.......
That is a fortune, and that doesnt include installing the parts and the tuning... And how often are you going to need 500 horses for auto-X? Honestly, you WILL be driving this on the street much more than the track, and may never see the road course, for your modest goals and budget, I would probably run a Cam/Heads set up, Fast 90/90 and a nice nitrous kit... Its not as sexy as a turbo kit, but come on.....
But if you want to learn the hard way, then spend spend spend, and just realize in the beginning that a turbo set up is not an easy goal for the weekend hobby mechanic... there is so much to understand and so many variables in the design and execution, and it is extremely sofisticated... not to mention expensive...
or just buy one of these twin kits from a sponsor... GenTT or APS or even Speed or Futrall or Stenod... whomever... STS would even get it with enough money.. but anyway....
That is a fortune, and that doesnt include installing the parts and the tuning... And how often are you going to need 500 horses for auto-X? Honestly, you WILL be driving this on the street much more than the track, and may never see the road course, for your modest goals and budget, I would probably run a Cam/Heads set up, Fast 90/90 and a nice nitrous kit... Its not as sexy as a turbo kit, but come on.....
But if you want to learn the hard way, then spend spend spend, and just realize in the beginning that a turbo set up is not an easy goal for the weekend hobby mechanic... there is so much to understand and so many variables in the design and execution, and it is extremely sofisticated... not to mention expensive...
or just buy one of these twin kits from a sponsor... GenTT or APS or even Speed or Futrall or Stenod... whomever... STS would even get it with enough money.. but anyway....
EngineerMike- I know it will be really dificult for what it is, but doesn't being semi orginal mean anything anymore? I really think that this will meet his overall goals with the parameters he has defined.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2005
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Which one would you choose between the D1SC and the best optioned out STS turbo kit?
This video really impressed me:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c...4d231db124.htm
Plus I do love that sound. I've heard good and bad about the STS systems, what's the truth about them? I also read all of the benefits of a rear mount setup and there do seem to be some nice benefits. The only thing I'd be worried about is taking out the turbo on a driveway or something and ruining it.
I've pretty much thrown out the autocross/open track idea, I'll just looking into getting something else for that. SO, my T/A will be seeing ONLY street/drag strip duty.
Which one would you guys go with between the STS system and a D1SC? I know they're both amazing products and my friend's Procharged SS is just awesome and the kit is great quality. The turbo kits just seem to put down some amazing numbers for what they're pushing. It says on their site that on 8 psi the LS1 test car that made 334 HP N/A made 508 HP and 548 torque. That's about the same HP as my friend made with his H/C/forged D1SC car on 8 psi, but 68 more torque...and my friend's car is H/C. I'm just kinda confused.
I don't know, I know it's all about powerband not just peak numbers, but that's enticing nonetheless. What would you do? Remember, my goal is a full-weight street car running mid-high 10s.
Thanks guys.
This video really impressed me:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c...4d231db124.htm
Plus I do love that sound. I've heard good and bad about the STS systems, what's the truth about them? I also read all of the benefits of a rear mount setup and there do seem to be some nice benefits. The only thing I'd be worried about is taking out the turbo on a driveway or something and ruining it.
I've pretty much thrown out the autocross/open track idea, I'll just looking into getting something else for that. SO, my T/A will be seeing ONLY street/drag strip duty.
Which one would you guys go with between the STS system and a D1SC? I know they're both amazing products and my friend's Procharged SS is just awesome and the kit is great quality. The turbo kits just seem to put down some amazing numbers for what they're pushing. It says on their site that on 8 psi the LS1 test car that made 334 HP N/A made 508 HP and 548 torque. That's about the same HP as my friend made with his H/C/forged D1SC car on 8 psi, but 68 more torque...and my friend's car is H/C. I'm just kinda confused.
I don't know, I know it's all about powerband not just peak numbers, but that's enticing nonetheless. What would you do? Remember, my goal is a full-weight street car running mid-high 10s.
Thanks guys.
I'm not sure why your friends ss didn't put down more peak hp with that set-up, possibly not the best H/C selection for fi or maybe a stalled auto. Either way, I'd be willing to bet his ss would kill your car with only the addition of a sts kit if you where both running 8psi. Not that the sts kit is bad, just a heads/cam car is going to have a large advantage at the same boost levels. Either kit could get you in the tens but you seem to be more concerned with dyno numbers. I think you should just pick which type of f/i you think you like the best, they all should get you at the power level you need for tens. Then if you truely want tens and not just the dyno numbers, you need to start planning out the supporting mods.
One other thing, don't always buy into what the manufacturers site say because of course they are going to try and make thier kit sound the best. Do some more searching on here for others that have already proven the kits, it's a little more real world experience to make the best decission.
One other thing, don't always buy into what the manufacturers site say because of course they are going to try and make thier kit sound the best. Do some more searching on here for others that have already proven the kits, it's a little more real world experience to make the best decission.
Originally Posted by rufretic
Some of you guys are only looking at the amount of power it takes to get in the 10's, that can be done easily with what he has to spend. Just because you have enough power to be in the 10s doesn't mean your going to get a 10 second pass, you need to be able to support that power and get it to the ground.
this is what i see alot of on this board too. I personally did not build my car for the track. i did it for kick and because i can. just like the thread made by nine ball of the 1000 hp dreamers. now i know the original poster isnt talking about a 1000hp car.
but to the original poster.... do not waste money on a fast 90/90, i chose s/c for its linear power since i drive on the street. yes you can control boost on a turbo setup, but as been said there is alot of hassle to do a turbo setup. i took my car to the track for kicks and let me tell you "traction" will get you where you need to be. but i think $13k will be kinda tight. my sig has a link to my build
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Originally Posted by 560SL
Which one would you choose between the D1SC and the best optioned out STS turbo kit?
Mike
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 240
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Originally Posted by rufretic
I'm not sure why your friends ss didn't put down more peak hp with that set-up, possibly not the best H/C selection for fi or maybe a stalled auto. Either way, I'd be willing to bet his ss would kill your car with only the addition of a sts kit if you where both running 8psi. Not that the sts kit is bad, just a heads/cam car is going to have a large advantage at the same boost levels. Either kit could get you in the tens but you seem to be more concerned with dyno numbers. I think you should just pick which type of f/i you think you like the best, they all should get you at the power level you need for tens. Then if you truely want tens and not just the dyno numbers, you need to start planning out the supporting mods.
One other thing, don't always buy into what the manufacturers site say because of course they are going to try and make thier kit sound the best. Do some more searching on here for others that have already proven the kits, it's a little more real world experience to make the best decission.
One other thing, don't always buy into what the manufacturers site say because of course they are going to try and make thier kit sound the best. Do some more searching on here for others that have already proven the kits, it's a little more real world experience to make the best decission.
By the way, his car dead hooks on 315 Nittos with a 4.5k clutch drop with stock suspension besides for some subframe connectors. Dead hooks with 525 HP. I'm not concerned about spending money on suspension at all, especially for only running where I want to run. Like I said, this is a street car first, track car second.
Of course I'm not buying into everything manufacturers say. Give me a break. However, I would like to hear what some others have to say about the STS system. Turbo lag? Is it that big of a deal? Hell, my friend's SS lags till about 3.5-4k before the blower really kicks in.
Originally Posted by 560SL
By the way, his car dead hooks on 315 Nittos with a 4.5k clutch drop with stock suspension besides for some subframe connectors. Dead hooks with 525 HP. I'm not concerned about spending money on suspension at all, especially for only running where I want to run. Like I said, this is a street car first, track car second.
I can tell you don't want any more of my advise so I won't try to help you any more. Good luck with your goals.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by rufretic
Don't say you want a 10 second car then, say you want a fast street car. If thats true about your friends car then hes got a 12 second car. A car that runs even 11s doen't dead hook on 315 nittos with a 4.5 clutch drop so it sounds like his car is even slower than I thought. It's not uncommon though, a lot of FI cars only run 12s. That's still pretty fast for a street car. The way your setting up the car thats what you should expect.
I can tell you don't want any more of my advise so I won't try to help you any more. Good luck with your goals.
I can tell you don't want any more of my advise so I won't try to help you any more. Good luck with your goals.
I'm not saying that my friend's car is in the 10s, because it sure isn't, not on 8 psi. However, what I was saying is that if he can dead hook with 525 HP, I wouldn't need to go absolutely nuts on suspension if I'm going to do it at the track with more power. Yes, I would certainly buy more suspension than he's got, but I'm not about to do a tubular K-member or something like that.
By the way, there is NO way that my friend's car is in the 12s. I've ridden in his bolt-on Trans Am WS6 that he also owns that is probably a mid 12 car, and his SS is in a whole different league. At its current power level, I would guess that it's a mid 11 second car. I mean a H/C LS1 would run high 11s N/A with his setup and he has a blower, so it's definately in the low-mid 11s. I just don't see how it could be in the 12s. I also forgot to add that he also has a panhard bar if that makes much of a difference.
EDIT: Why does everyone keep talking me out of turbos? Just curious is all...I'm still completely undecided as to what to run, I think this thread just made me more confused!
Last edited by 560SL; Jun 6, 2007 at 10:18 PM.
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TECH Addict
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Originally Posted by 560SL
EDIT: Why does everyone keep talking me out of turbos?
Originally Posted by 560SL
Hey man, I didn't mean any disrespect, but I'm kinda offended when you say "oh don't believe everything the companies tell you" like I don't know my dick from a doorknob. I have been paying attention to your advice, believe me.
I'm not saying that my friend's car is in the 10s, because it sure isn't, not on 8 psi. However, what I was saying is that if he can dead hook with 525 HP, I wouldn't need to go absolutely nuts on suspension if I'm going to do it at the track with more power. Yes, I would certainly buy more suspension than he's got, but I'm not about to do a tubular K-member or something like that.
By the way, there is NO way that my friend's car is in the 12s. I've ridden in his bolt-on Trans Am WS6 that he also owns that is probably a mid 12 car, and his SS is in a whole different league. At its current power level, I would guess that it's a mid 11 second car. I mean a H/C LS1 would run high 11s N/A with his setup and he has a blower, so it's definately in the low-mid 11s. I just don't see how it could be in the 12s. I also forgot to add that he also has a panhard bar if that makes much of a difference.
EDIT: Why does everyone keep talking me out of turbos? Just curious is all...I'm still completely undecided as to what to run, I think this thread just made me more confused!
I'm not saying that my friend's car is in the 10s, because it sure isn't, not on 8 psi. However, what I was saying is that if he can dead hook with 525 HP, I wouldn't need to go absolutely nuts on suspension if I'm going to do it at the track with more power. Yes, I would certainly buy more suspension than he's got, but I'm not about to do a tubular K-member or something like that.
By the way, there is NO way that my friend's car is in the 12s. I've ridden in his bolt-on Trans Am WS6 that he also owns that is probably a mid 12 car, and his SS is in a whole different league. At its current power level, I would guess that it's a mid 11 second car. I mean a H/C LS1 would run high 11s N/A with his setup and he has a blower, so it's definately in the low-mid 11s. I just don't see how it could be in the 12s. I also forgot to add that he also has a panhard bar if that makes much of a difference.
EDIT: Why does everyone keep talking me out of turbos? Just curious is all...I'm still completely undecided as to what to run, I think this thread just made me more confused!
$13k for parts is not enough for a reliable FI and forged motor. $4k for labor is cutting it close too if there is customizing.I do these all the time so I'm talking from experience.
I would do a fully built 427ci,clutch, rear with some suspension.That should put you in the 10's as a DD.
I would do a fully built 427ci,clutch, rear with some suspension.That should put you in the 10's as a DD.
Originally Posted by The Black Mamba
I would go with a 400+ci motor and throw a 250 shot at it...
you'd be suprised how fast you can go with very little...
nitrous is so easy it should be illegal....
yes i've got a d1sc and yes i like it but if my goals were having a street car that could go 10.2x's then nitrous would be the only way i'd go... hell i went 10's cam only with a 125shot and drove it every where....
let W2W build you a long block and dont look back
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Launching!
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Originally Posted by Slowhawk
$13k for parts is not enough for a reliable FI and forged motor. $4k for labor is cutting it close too if there is customizing.I do these all the time so I'm talking from experience.
I would do a fully built 427ci,clutch, rear with some suspension.That should put you in the 10's as a DD.
I would do a fully built 427ci,clutch, rear with some suspension.That should put you in the 10's as a DD.
I'm not sure how the SS hooks so well. It made 525 HP and 480 torque on 6psi with a D1SC and it practically dead hooks from a 4.5k launch. When he floors it going like 10 MPH it just grabs and goes.
As for a fully-built 427, what all would that entail and what kind of times would it run N/A? I'm not sure I want to mess with nitrous.
a 427 with 4.10 gears will probably do everything that you want and more. It would not really be that hard at all. Motor swap and a tune and you should be good. May need a new wiring harness but there are ways around that also
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Launching!
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Originally Posted by sevanseriesta
a 427 with 4.10 gears will probably do everything that you want and more. It would not really be that hard at all. Motor swap and a tune and you should be good. May need a new wiring harness but there are ways around that also
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Originally Posted by 560SL
Could you point out like what parts I should buy to put it together? . . . Do you really think it could do mid-high 10s though?
Mike
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Launching!
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Originally Posted by engineermike
427 with L92 heads/intake and a TRex cam would be good for 500+ rwhp and mid/high 10's.
Mike
Mike
I know I'm going to need some serious suspension. I was thinking control arms, panhard bar, subframe connectors, and obviously a rear end. Any other suggestions?
first of all a 427 with a trex cam would be pretty streetable. The more cubes you run, the more streetable those cams are. that would not even be considered a big cam in a 427 IMO. And the trex cam really does like the spray so your answer for that would be yes
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Launching!
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Originally Posted by sevanseriesta
first of all a 427 with a trex cam would be pretty streetable. The more cubes you run, the more streetable those cams are. that would not even be considered a big cam in a 427 IMO. And the trex cam really does like the spray so your answer for that would be yes