You lost 200hp on back to back pulls and you're out taking it to 6 grand today??? I think I'd try to find the problem first. I don't think I'd even be driving it.

 

Aps recommends the cheap copper tr6 to 10 psi or something in the instructions and then the iridiums it looks like in 7 or 8 for track and guess high boost. Platinum are not usualy a good thing for FI cars but iridium or copper are fine. Maybe email or phone APS and ask them what they think. I thought they said they were running tr6 in their high boost dynos?? Pull some plugs and maybe take some pictures. If you really hurt the engine bad you would likely be seeing big clouds of blue or white. White of course being from blown head gasket.
I looked up the specs for the ram and it says its rated for like 1000 and thought read thats rwhp? and 900 torque again thats rwtq? So it should be fine. But as said if not adjusted right it could be slipping and burning itself up pretty quickly.Its not adjusted right or not bled right if you are having trouble with 1st and reverse.Those are the gears that really tell you if you have problems.
I know for a fact a clutch can lose couple hundred hp. I can't see timing or even afr losing that much. And can't see engine being pooched with no smoke coming out or bad noises. But blowing out the spark could kill power for sure. Too bad its still fairly annoying to do plugs in the ls1 but better than some cars. So how is plug access with the aps manifolds? Looks like it should be good.

 

It drives fine??

 

Plugs with APS kit is about the same as a Stock LS1.

 

Hmm not sure following what you said there Kwikkar? They list 4 plugs in aps install instructions..For stock exhaust and low boost tr55. For bit higher boost tr6, for racing it at higher boost it looks like tr7ix or tr8ix which are irdium plugs.I was planning on going with tr6Ix gapped around .030 for starters but didn't think would be running much more than 10psi daily and very occasionally going higher. I would imagine your car is a crazy ride at even current power level.Well assuming your getting that 720rwhp and not 520rwhp.

I looked again at aps threads and they did dyno their forged up 346 .They also listed their timing and their afr but they were running meth/alc injection. They also didn't mention plugs. Their compression ratio was 9.2.

 

subscribing..hope you get it figured out.

 

Sorry I mint to sat changing plugs with the APS kit is about the same as a Stock LS1 plug change.

Well my boost is hitting 14.2psi so I'm guessing that means both turbos are working fine.????

I'll try and pull a plug or to today, what should I look for ???

 

Well you could take a pic of your plugs. They should not be white of course and no evidence of detonation. I have been reading and many guys have run tr6 from think .025 to even maybe .035 up to think even 20psi. You can do a search on this forum for plugs under this section. I doubt problem is plugs. I am still leaning to that clutch from what you said about 1st and reverse. Get that adjusted right now! Just turn nut under there and make rod longer until it goes nicely into 1st and reverse.
Hopefully clutch is ok still.

Problem with dual turbos is if one is not working the other one could maybe make up for it making it hard to tell. I would think best way would be to somehow take off outlet pipe from the one turbo and block it with something so only one turbo feeds the engine but then this is only feeding off one side of the motor. Or if guy can open the gate so the one dont' actually boost at all. Not sure how to check turbo output when you have two. Its easy with only one. And easy to make gate open on internal wastegates.Just wire it open.
Still again if you got 14psi in there you got 14psi but its not psi by itself that gives the power its airflow. 20psi on tiny turbo is not 20psi on bigger higher flowing turbos.
So simply looking at that number is not going to guarantee much dont' think if the one turbo is not flowing air and contributing it share. Again I have only had single turbo cars so far.
I do now that excessive play normally causes lots of oil coming thru the exhaust thru the turbo seals. Head gaskets blown normally cause lots of white smoke. Blown engines also cause usually lots of oil when ringlands let go but you have forged pistons not stock hypercraps.
What fuel are you running? Are you running alc or meth injection. Think setting alc or meth injection wrong can also take away power. Beg,buy or borrow a scanner and start looking at your timing ,knock retard and even narrowband 02s and other values. Buy a wideband right away and keep one in the car. We need more hard data now to really help you out.

 

Are all the valve springs still good? 200hp is something MAJOR! I wouldn't drive it either.I bet you have a boost leak somewhere.Check all the charge pipes..

 

I work at the shop that dynoed your car, and when I looked at the turbos there seemed to be some major play in the shaft on the drivers side, enough that it was leaking oil out of the compressor housing. It seemed like the turbo was on the way out, and I wouldn't push it too hard until you can pull the turbo and get it checked out!

Chris

 

hmmmm,that sucks

 

He has afr 225 heads I think with 8019 valve springs good for .650 lift. what are the cam specs again? So very unlikely its that. If the turbo is leaking oil then its possible its a defective. Pain in butt to take it out but mabye can do it by taking apart downpipe from turbo so you don't have to drop the k member ??

 

I'd do a leak down test of the cylinders, when they added a degree of timing, they may have had some detonation/lost a ringland.

Ryan K.

 

Doubt a degree of timing is going to ruin the engine. But be nice to see some logs of timing and knock retard. Remember the engines have knock sensors and take timing back so they are pretty safe compared to older engines with no knock sensors.And he has a forged engine with forged pistons they can take a good amount of detonation thats why you pay the bucks for them. And their ringlands are strong.Factory pistons are garbage for FI applications. I have some souvenirs if you want to see some picks..Ringlands,what ringlands..LOL
But if he blew head gasket he would see white smoke and if he blew pistons he would see lots of blue smoke and of course would have no compression in there .
He has lots of things to check. First get the clutch engaging and disengaging right. Then check his plugs to see what at least some of them look like, check for boost leaks,see whats up with that one mabye pooched turbo, scan the car and look at knock retard,timing and wideband it for afr.

Also possibilty maybe is the intake tubes sucking shut at 14 or more psi. It is possibly an issue if you read the other threads on the subject.

 

Loosing 60hp is a bunch back to back, when adding more advance it can be night and day depending on his combo. First he lost 60, then he lost 200, the motor does not sound healthy.

Personally if it were my vehicle, i would verify the integrity of the motor before doing anything else. You dont just loose 200hp in plain air.

This car being a GTO, the inlet tube will not suck shut, it has a re-enforced tube. Also, it did make full boost.

Also, one turbo is not enough to make 600-700hp, so im guessing its not the turbo.

Unless you went stark rich, there is something else thats up.

 

I agree with you, the turbos are most likely fine. Something happened on the dyno on those last two pulls. Can you get us the graphs? Whos tunning the car? Since the tuner keeps blaming the turbos I would like to see the dyno graphs and what he was doing while it was on there.

 

GTO.says in sig its a camaro? and new katech forged engine. Afr heads. But sure he needs to do things logically and check things until he finds a reason for the 60 and then 200 loss. I will still put my money on clutch slipping or not adjusted right.He said he has trouble getting first and reverse and those rams use adjustable masters. Had disaster from adjustable master on a cartech clutch. Died prematurely at only a 1000 or so miles. Car lost all power.
Blown engines blow blue or white..and lots of it. Take out ringlands going to blow lots of blue. But these are forged pistons.Should take some detonation. Maybe they left timing stock who knows? We need more info for sure. Be nice to see dynos and afr and be nice if he had a scanner or did some logging. So since this is a f body can't his intakes be sucking shut? You guys already had that problem on the car you did right?

Here is his sig..
1999 Camaro SS #208
APS Twin Turbo-Katech LS2 402 Stroker 720rwhp @13psi

 

I'd check the turbo(s), easy enough to pull off for a thorough inspection. Have you checked for any exhaust leaks from the exhaust manifolds to the turbo as well?

 

I was confused with another member (similar name).

We have encountered the ducts sucking shut on two cars.

What happens is the boost rises up, then cuts basically in half (we had one turbo side suck shut). If they graphed boost against rpm you will see it.

 

Well I haven't had time to even look at the car lately. But I just want to clear up something. First of all chris, I asked James/Wade about the turbo and if it was OK to drive and he said yes you can drive it but I wouldn't get into boost to much. There wasn't nothing said about oil coming out of the turbo housing, only that the shaft had some major play in it. If that was the case then I would of trailered the car home and not even of drove it. ANd the following day I took both intake tubes off the turbos and there WASN"T a drop of oil coming out of anything.
The only reason for me posting this up is to get other feed back from other people. I'm not one to just go pull a turbo off right away. And if it easy then yeah I would go pull it off, but I dont have time nor would I like to do it, due to the fact I just put the bastards on there and its not easy. If the turbo or turbos are bad then I will pull them off but I would like to rule out everything else first.