......Im just torn between what fuel to run next season because I want to street it(kinda). But also want the most power consistency as possible. 
E85 consistency going to be a problem???
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E85 consistency going to be a problem??? I am in the middle of a 1000+ RWHP turbo build, and planned on running E85 with a versafueler driver and 160 bosch injectors. Here in Illinois all the pumps switch to a "winter" blend starting in october and lasts threw april. I called up speed inc who i was planning on having tune my car and they said unless its a race car they did not recommend doing the conversion because if the consistency is not always the same the tune will be off. I TOTALLY AGREE. But my question is what are you guys doing to keep the same precentage of ethanol in the mixure year around? I looked into buying it by the barrel, but it seems its going to cost me a nut to get it shipped here. Also the fuel will supposedly spoil fast once opened due to the e85 collection moisture.
What should I do????
What should I do????
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From: Thomasboro, ILL
Just get yourself a wideband and adjust the tune yourself after you get the dyno tune. The only thing you should have to change is the A/F ratio with the winter blend. I run E85 all year in my TA with stock O2's as well as an LM1 with gauge on dash, and all I have to do when the mixture changes is adjust the fuel injector constant to get the fuel trims back in line (close to 128), then adjust the WOT A/F afterwards. Of course if you are running an Open Loop tune, then you should have a wideband anyway.
For what it is worth, I run e85 and boost year round here in Oklahoma. I am Open loop with EFILive and I see some variations in AFR when the cooler weather sets in, but nothing big. I start my car every two days for about a minute to keep the injectors and fuel pump working. I have never had issues with water in the fuel even when it sets. you should be ok.
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could i just buy some rocket e85 and mix it with winter blend to get a summer blend? i think this is what im gonna try. just using a tester until it reads 85% ethanol. Also thinking about doing the 160lb bosch high impedence injectors. anyone else tried these?
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E85 composition from station to station between seasons can be very inconsistent. There are 3 classes of E85 used at different times of the year:
- Summer Blend: Class 1 (min 79% ethanol)
- Spring/Fall Blend: Class 2 (min 74% ethanol)
- Winter Blend: Class 3 (min 70% ethanol)
When the local stations are supposed to switch depends on the state you live in. I included a link below that shows the Class for each state by month. I definitely recommend buying a tester so you can check the composition at each fill up. I filled up in September and according the chart below it should have been Class 2 (E74) and it was actually Class 3 (E70) when I tested it.
E85 Class by State:
http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html
You need to take that into consideration when tuning. If you tune to true E85 and run E74 or E70 the car will run richer, but still a safe AFR at WOT. Just don't do the reverse or will you will run much leaner. I use EFIlive and have different tunes (E85, E70, gas only, etc) loaded in my V2 so I can just flash the correct tune based on the fuel composition tested.
Here's a run down of stoichiometric by Ethanol content. I also recommend tuning with Lambda when dealing with E85 because it's easier to work with with.
- Summer Blend: Class 1 (min 79% ethanol)
- Spring/Fall Blend: Class 2 (min 74% ethanol)
- Winter Blend: Class 3 (min 70% ethanol)
When the local stations are supposed to switch depends on the state you live in. I included a link below that shows the Class for each state by month. I definitely recommend buying a tester so you can check the composition at each fill up. I filled up in September and according the chart below it should have been Class 2 (E74) and it was actually Class 3 (E70) when I tested it.
E85 Class by State:
http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html
You need to take that into consideration when tuning. If you tune to true E85 and run E74 or E70 the car will run richer, but still a safe AFR at WOT. Just don't do the reverse or will you will run much leaner. I use EFIlive and have different tunes (E85, E70, gas only, etc) loaded in my V2 so I can just flash the correct tune based on the fuel composition tested.
Here's a run down of stoichiometric by Ethanol content. I also recommend tuning with Lambda when dealing with E85 because it's easier to work with with.
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i use e85 and the only problem ive had with my 8 sec s10 and carb is the gas vaproizes fast so the percentages goes up. ive had summer blend at 83% always go to 92% between races. i just add pump 93 till its 83%. ive used it for 3yrs and this was a problem only 2 times.
been using E85 year round for 5 years and never had any problems. The richer E70 mixture actually about evens out with the cold air and low humidity, I rarely have STFTs over 5%. We have a car locally that puts out around 1500hp on pump E85, for 4 years. Never tested the fuel once, just fill it up and go run low 8's, no problems. And yes it gets driven on the street, alot
I have run e70-e90 and have not seen any difference in e.t. using the same tune . I have a N/A 427 c5r with 15:1 and 860 horse up to 8500 rpm. I tune in lambda with BS3 and the previous chart is way off. If I ran my car @ .67 it would be dumping raw fuel out the exhaust. Mine made most power on dyno and track @ .79 -.81. Been using it for 3 years and 0 problems. No corrosion and no detonation. People that are afraid to use it have no experience with it.
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I have run e70-e90 and have not seen any difference in e.t. using the same tune . I have a N/A 427 c5r with 15:1 and 860 horse up to 8500 rpm. I tune in lambda with BS3 and the previous chart is way off. If I ran my car @ .67 it would be dumping raw fuel out the exhaust. Mine made most power on dyno and track @ .79 -.81. Been using it for 3 years and 0 problems. No corrosion and no detonation. People that are afraid to use it have no experience with it.
Also I haven't noticed any difference in E85 here at all this winter.
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From: Thomasboro, ILL
I havent checked the E85 here this winter, or found the station that sells the most. Anyone know where or how you could possibly get that info. I have 6 stations within 20 miles, no idea which one sells more than the next.
E85 composition from station to station between seasons can be very inconsistent. There are 3 classes of E85 used at different times of the year:
- Summer Blend: Class 1 (min 79% ethanol)
- Spring/Fall Blend: Class 2 (min 74% ethanol)
- Winter Blend: Class 3 (min 70% ethanol)
When the local stations are supposed to switch depends on the state you live in. I included a link below that shows the Class for each state by month. I definitely recommend buying a tester so you can check the composition at each fill up. I filled up in September and according the chart below it should have been Class 2 (E74) and it was actually Class 3 (E70) when I tested it.
E85 Class by State:
http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html
You need to take that into consideration when tuning. If you tune to true E85 and run E74 or E70 the car will run richer, but still a safe AFR at WOT. Just don't do the reverse or will you will run much leaner. I use EFIlive and have different tunes (E85, E70, gas only, etc) loaded in my V2 so I can just flash the correct tune based on the fuel composition tested.
Here's a run down of stoichiometric by Ethanol content. I also recommend tuning with Lambda when dealing with E85 because it's easier to work with with.
- Summer Blend: Class 1 (min 79% ethanol)
- Spring/Fall Blend: Class 2 (min 74% ethanol)
- Winter Blend: Class 3 (min 70% ethanol)
When the local stations are supposed to switch depends on the state you live in. I included a link below that shows the Class for each state by month. I definitely recommend buying a tester so you can check the composition at each fill up. I filled up in September and according the chart below it should have been Class 2 (E74) and it was actually Class 3 (E70) when I tested it.
E85 Class by State:
http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html
You need to take that into consideration when tuning. If you tune to true E85 and run E74 or E70 the car will run richer, but still a safe AFR at WOT. Just don't do the reverse or will you will run much leaner. I use EFIlive and have different tunes (E85, E70, gas only, etc) loaded in my V2 so I can just flash the correct tune based on the fuel composition tested.
Here's a run down of stoichiometric by Ethanol content. I also recommend tuning with Lambda when dealing with E85 because it's easier to work with with.
Or are you leaving your gauge in Gasoline afr and back calculating?
To me, stoich = lambda 1.0
Just want to get the facts straight.
I use EFIlive and have different tunes (E85, E70, gas only, etc) loaded in my V2 so I can just flash the correct tune based on the fuel composition tested.
I am waiting to order them just incase I change my mind again from know till its ready to go. I have seen a few people sell the 160 bosch high imp injectors, one is a sponsor, but I found multiple others with way lower prices. So still looking and doing my research before dropping over a 1K on injectors.
I havent checked the E85 here this winter, or found the station that sells the most. Anyone know where or how you could possibly get that info. I have 6 stations within 20 miles, no idea which one sells more than the next.
I havent checked the E85 here this winter, or found the station that sells the most. Anyone know where or how you could possibly get that info. I have 6 stations within 20 miles, no idea which one sells more than the next.
First thing I have to say is that if you tune anything for stoich. (no matter what fuel youre using) other than cruising, you shouldnt be tuning at all. Take it to someone that knows more than you. Max power or torque is NOT achieved at stoich. That just means it is chemically correct. My best power and time is at .79-.81 and it doesnt matter what the blend of e85 is in. Anywhere from e70-e92. If anything was tuned at stoich. ( which is 1.00 lambda no matter the fuel ) It would be wayyyy lean.
Second thing is that the inconsistencies between stations or seasons are pretty much irrelevant unless you just want to be perfect. The gains are nothing other than the satisfaction of saying "I have a tune for everything from 86 octane to methanol and everything in between". Even though for all intended uses .80 or close to it, for e85 will work just as well.
Second thing is that the inconsistencies between stations or seasons are pretty much irrelevant unless you just want to be perfect. The gains are nothing other than the satisfaction of saying "I have a tune for everything from 86 octane to methanol and everything in between". Even though for all intended uses .80 or close to it, for e85 will work just as well.
Last edited by crb99ws6; Feb 7, 2011 at 09:16 AM.