allblackedout5

iTrader: (18)

If you go with the TSP injectors let me know, I have the data for their 42# @ 43psi injectors. I purchased them, and was provided data for them.... I'd have to search for it but I believe I have it in my old emails. According to my tuner once the data was input they were extremely easy to tune with and the car ran very well. My cam is extremely similar to the 228r and I am on ported 243 heads and an lq4 6.0 ... they'll be plenty of injector for your needs. And do not listen to the guy who says you don't need data...

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

It is possible through experience and common sense. Every injector since fuel injection has been invented has its own minimum desired/recommended pulsewidth for precise metering of fuel. The exact number varies with voltage which is why the info is useful. However most car electrical systems operate at one specific voltage most of the time with very little variation.

With this in mind, it is possible to find the injector open delay by dialing back fuel injector pulsewidth until erratic, often random misfires, behavior results from the engine with minimum injector pulse. I always do this even if the data is given anyways since it is important to know your actual injector operating range on the exact engine you are working on, I never rely on "plug and play data". Since stand-alone computer systems do not rely on Fuel VE table for ignition timing and transmission shifting the way factory LS computer does, I also use this as an opportunity to normalize my basemap idle fuel injection values. That is, I prefer them to all read approx 1.005ms. So if my voltage curve during testing was 1ms and I find that it takes .885ms in the fuel map to get misfires, my total ontime being around 1.885, I find my injector delay to be -1(1.005 - 1.885 + error), where error is a tiny number, usually .015 or .025 any number I choose to remove myself from the troubling conditions presented at exactly 1.885ms after some testing. I make sure that with error there is never any condition under which the engine behaves erratically and that by removing the erratic injector behavior ensues.

It is worth mentioning now that we've come this far that once you get solid data at that voltage, to disable the alternator or dial back alternator duty cycle is a solid way to dial in the injector delay for conditions when the alternator dies or voltage drops . Since the line between them is close enough to linear, it will make a second data point to draw a line with.

Injector delay is insignificant at large injector pulsewidths. i.e. losing 2 volts with a poorly drawn injector delay curve isn't going to cost a significant amount of fuel, especially with a large injector. Many stand-alone ECU (Haltech & AEM) shut the alternator off at high engine angular velocity (RPM) anyways. The injector delay "tuning" schedule is primarily for convenience and low-speed combustion quality/consistency, as having injectors randomly not open around idle speeds is inconvenient and perhaps annoying, but certainly not fatal to the engine.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Holy ****, amazing,

that guy walked into a junkyard on jan. 1st 2017 having never seen an LS engine in person before, and over the course of next 4-months, in the outside air, with no shop/lift, took an LS from a junkyard refurbished the top part and put it into a Nissan, wired it, tuned it, turbo'd it and put about 7,000 miles on it by 2018 while working out the bugs (after all, its his first LS engine, gonna be bugs right). And then posted every step it took for the benefit of others.


The point I've always been trying to make there is, you don't need to own or ever have seen an LS engine or it's tuning software... to know how to work on, install, and tune LS engines and their software. I knew how to tune an LS before I saw one. Its offered a few surprises but nothing beyond that which I was already aware that a digital processor could do.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi RX7, the Denso injectors ARE Batched AND I provide the "dead" times AT NO EXTRA charge with a cost of $45.00 each.
The Eight piece price SHIPPED to your door, USA, by USPS.

Lance

Rx7TyreBurna

iTrader: (1)

Lance,
I'm interested, what's the process to get these from you?

turbolx

I really wish people would stick to science instead of spreading village wisdom.

ChopperDoc

Those silly companies must be wrong for testing all their injectors and providing reliable data to us. We're nuts to want to use that over sitting for hours and developing our own data with just a scanner right? Lol. Why would we want this if we can just use afr and VE to "find" the right data, even though injector data changes VE, and afr, and changes to VE affect pulse width, and afr, and charge temp bias affects VE, and pulse width, and afr, and a/f changes affect VE, and afr, and so does altitude, and baro pressure... jeez, seems so simple just to figure all that flow stuff out right? Especially when a single change to any of those changes all others, it would be straight crazy to rely on some injector company to get proper flow data using proper measuring equipment. I hope you detect the sarcasm there lol.

I'm really tired of responding to people that want to reinvent the wheel, so I'll respond to someone else that seems to show a bit of sense. Thanks for the reply.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Its called tuning and this is how we learned 15 years ago before delay times were provided for applications where nobody has ever tried this **** before and it didn't even matter because injectors were so sloppy anyways. You are just coming in after years of research and hard work has been done and now they put out some really nice high impedance injectors that can actually meter fuel. Kind of like being forced to use pre-cal and trig first before using calculus. Once they invent calculus sure, you can use it easy; but not knowing what equations evolved from to get there cripples you in a diagnostic setting. Plug and play some numbers is not "learning how to fish". Its just skipping the hard parts of tuning, going right to calc without understanding how they send x to infinity to get area under the curve without drawing a million boxes.

You are literally talking about less than 1ms or .001 seconds worth of fuel, hardly enough to qualify for such exasperated internet postings. Spend your time more wisely IMO

heres me, letting go

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi RX7, there ARE four sizes in length, long, two medium, short AND that the Denso uses an American Car connector.

My guess is "Long" for your needs, send the money for payment, my E-mail is a common method, AND send the ship to address, delivery will be by USPS.

Thanks for your RFQ.

I MANUFACTURE EMS, I KNOW these reasons !

#1 I fit a 46 AMP Mosfet Injector Driver, each channel with NO need for DEAD TIME calibrations. The GM PCM use a Monolithic EIGHT CHANNEL IC with ONE AMP drive requiring Dead Time Calibration.

I have an object of V-Batt calibration for Injector Pulse Width change based on system voltage with common calibration # of 60us-75us.
This is VERY Important for Cold Start/Fans/Air Condition caused by charging system voltage change.

The injector Armature travel "read" is VERY easy when a Scope is used.
This information is used to calculate the Min-PW of the measure fuel injector.

Lance

Rx7TyreBurna

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Lance!
I can measure my existing injectors if it'll help.
Also, just paypal you the $360, with my address and the information about this post and the injectors we discussed?

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi RX7, SURE.

Please include you phone number as I will provide more tech about installation method.

Lance

Rx7TyreBurna

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Lance.
I'll take measurements tonight, and send payment tonight. Much appreciated!

turbolx

15 years ago, the OEMs still had accurate injector data in their calibrations. It's just that most of the tooning industry was ignorant as to what those numbers really meant. It doesn't make them less important if you want a car that runs well under all conditions.

I'd wager that with the proper data, one could make a 15 year set of EV1 injectors run better on an LS3 (or any ECU, really) than some random unknown newer design without data.

When your idle and cruising pulsewidth can be less than 2ms total (very common with 60#/hr injectors, more so if they're larger) you are talking about 50% of the total on-time. This is NOT a negligible amount.

Buh-bye.

rpturbo

iTrader: (47)

Buy used GM injectors from a GTP. They flow 42#'s on LS fuel pressure. Several guys sell them on here or on ebay. They are about $80-$90. Send them to Eric Derr and have them cleaned and for less than $175 have a flowed set of injectors that plug right in. Data is widely available.

STOP WASTING $$$

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi RX-7, your order of Eight Flow Matched fuel injectors is in transit, dead time sheet/pressure flow sheet included.
Your requirement of an EARLY EV-1, "long", fuel injector was met by a Bosch product, the modern thin injector with 14 Ohms.
This is a more expensive item, though YOUR payment made was for Denso EV-14.
Thus you got THAT price as quoted, I am fine with your case.

I should add that MOST LS engines use injectors with the EV-14 (American Car) connector.
Many LS injectors are the "short" item.

Thanks for the pictures sent to my direct E-Mail as there was NO mistake.

Lance

qweedqwag

I'm running SVO injectors with a big cam and a fast 90/90 with ported 243 heads..

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

I said quite clearly,
I was very clear that it was important at low pulse widths for convenience and low-speed combustion quality/consistency and insignificant at high pulse widths. These days we have a wideband in the car which tells us right away if the a/f is wrong or not. So this is a non issue, i.e. you can have poor injector delay information and still have a good a/f ratio because the base map will makeup for the difference if you are actually tuning the vehicle.

ChopperDoc

A large cam with lots of overlap will throw off the a/f ratio at low rpm, especially idle. It will normally read much leaner than actual because fresh air escapes into the exhaust when the intake opens. That's why lots of us run hybrid tunes if using MAF, as in OL idle, so it doesn't surge like crazy when the computer tries to correct the "lean" condition, which is actually false. So once again, not a reliable method to count on W/B at idle, because even that will be wrong. Then again, I guess if you have a small cam it won't matter much, but some of us have lots of overlap. I'm at 93* with my custom stroker cam. I'm also using reliable data, so it's a non issue.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

1. This happens if you don't tune the engine properly. You need to set the injector phase to fire the large enough injector after overlap. Even gen3 ecu can do this and basically every stand-alone in existence.

2. You should not be using closed loop at idle with a big cam, unnecessary and leads to these kinds of ridiculous complications

3. I never use closed loop in any of my cars at any time anyways. If you know how to tune an engine you won't need it or want it either. It would get worse fuel economy with computer control closed loop in my application (daily).

4. You have to use a little common sense and experience when tuning low speed with a wideband. 100+ cars and I've never had an issue following it at idle, even with enormous camshafts etc... I know tons of tricks for this. If you want some tricks lmk Ill post a couple but theres like 10 I know of,

A: Just off idle the pulse will be similar to idle. So if the wideband is giving you **** with no load/neutral at 1000rpm, simply put it in gear and let the car roll "load a little" to 1200rpm and check your injector pulse / wideband behavior. As the engine loads it will get smoother as more fuel is injected and the average improves. Apply the brakes to further assist with low rpm / load condition.

B: reducing injector pulse until the engine misfires at random is a clear indicator that injector on-time is at it's minimum. This is important because a large injector with poor low-pulse performance is going to give more trouble with idle speed behavior, especially if the a/f being displayed is still too rich and you cannot reduce pulse further for example. This basically sets the minimum pulse FOR YOU (as opposed to any reading on the wideband gauge, which is meaningless at this point because you can't reduce pulse enough to get it where you want it) Again I know work around but... space concerns ... just ask

C: &C

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

Lets see some video's of the 100+ cars you say you tuned or links to the builds you tuned.
A year ago you didn't even know what a damn OBD2 port was and they have been on vehicles since what....1996?
How can you have tuned a 100+ cars and not immediately know what an OBD2 port looks like?

Speaking of common sense.
You continue to be called out post after post and continue to "try" to argue your point. Have you even thought about why that only seems to happen you?

There is a reason for needing/having/wanting injector data yet you seem to be the only one saying otherwise. Can it be tuned without the data....sure...but it's so much faster/easier with it.