asking a lot of 12 bolt questions today so bear with me if you read the others. THanks to all who responded. I read most of the post doing a search on 12 bolts also and learned of the need for an adjustable panhard bar and torque arm with a 12 bolt in those post. Anyways on to the question..

If given $3500-4000 to upgrade car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> would you buy a 12 bolt or upgrade the whining 10 bolt rear end to different gearsand Auburn posi unit and then use the rest of the money elsewhere on the car for exhaust, suspension and brake mods? THe car will not see any dragstrip use but only street use and yes I due bark the tires in 2nd and 3rd a lot so it's not like it would be treated nicely just because it is on the street.

A Moser 12bolt complete is around $2600 including shipping charges so that would only leave me with 1000-1500 for mods and a nice corsa catback takes off another $600 and then the adjustable panhard bar and torque arm takes another $500 off and if I have the parts installed which is probably going to happen there goes the rest. Oh, sell the 10 bolt for an unknown amount of money less brakes.

Modify the 10bolt...$500, suspension upgrades, cat-back, y-pipe, shorty headers, maybe even a RAM Air hood with ram air cleaner since mine is a non WS6.

Any suggestions..the rear end is the big factor and would hate to use the money up then have the modified 10bolt go out 6 months later. No major mods will be done to the car like cam, heads, NOS anytime soon, probably not for 2-3 years to be honest. This is my daily driver.

 

Some 6 speed cars have broken the rears with street tires on. Some A4's have gone into the low 10's with the stock 10 bolt with 28" slicks launching hard. It all depends on *your* 10 bolt and how you drive. When I went heads/cam I decided to go with a 12 bolt even though I never go to the strip. Its just reassuring to know that i can launch my car and not have to worry about the rear end. If I were you, I would upgrade the rear and get it out of the way, because more than likely you will do heads/cam in the future and then wish you had that 12 bolt. Preventive maintenance.
-dan

 

If your a 6speed car, so long as you ONLY do bolt-ons and nothing more than Nitto's for tires, you should be ok, but its risky.

A4s can take alot more.

 

I was running a stock 10 bolt and rebuilt it with top quality racing parts. I added 4.10 gears, new racing bearings etc, and a TA cover. I only had less than 20 passes at the track and broke a tooth off the gear, and I only launched at 2500-3000 rpm. I now have a Moser 12 bolt and this thing friggin ROCKS!! The car is sooo much more responsive than before, when I step on it, it moves. I've been taking it easy because I just got the rear put in, but last night I decided the break in period is over =), I was lined up at a light next to my friends 01 SS after our bowling league. On green I eased the clutch then floored it, with ASR on, I felt the rear sink and twist as the car tried to pull the left front tire up and I'm running Sub-Frames, heavy duty torque arm, and adjustable shocks. I have never been able to pull the front up like that on the street with my 10 bolt. Anyway I shift to 2nd and chriped with the ASR on. Which was never easy to do before with the 10 bolt and 4.10's.

I'm really excited to get to the track, the weather looks crappy today, but if it holds I am going to test and tune tonite.

Anyway, I just wish I had bought the 12 bolt sooner, I now look back and see I wasted my money on building up a 10 bolt. I would recommend you get the 12 bolt now, its worth the money.

Lee

 

where do you live at in FL "Fear the LS1" ?? I'm up in North FL. Also, is your Moser Rear quiet??

<small>[ September 11, 2002, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: badbird88 ]</small>

 

Spend the money on a 12 bolt. I've fragged my 10 bolt posi pretty good. It's just too weak. As for price, shop around a bit $2600 is too high. $2300 is about the norm and shipping to my door was only $50 freight. I've seen a loaded up 12 bolt for as low as $2000. So nice now being able to launch off the revlimiter! It's also great on the street and no real major difference in fit on the car, looks stock at a glance.

 

"Derty" and "Fear The LS1" did you have to use an adjustable torque arm and panhard bar and if so which torque arm fit with no mods req'd? What was the hidden cost in getting it installed, extra part or extra modifications needed anywhere?

Thanks!

 

I have a Spohn Torque arm. It fit like a glove on the 10 bolt and fits like a glove on the 12 bolt. Stock torque arm should mount right up.

Panhard bar is also a Spohn tubular nonadjustable. I do not have a lowering kit and I don't plan on lowering the car. It also clears the cover by at least 1-1/2".

I used a Spohn sway bar kit and endlink extensions, about $85. I had the whole 12 bolt except the cover poweder coated gloss black for another $100. The bearings needed to be pressed on with my brake backing plates and exciter rings off my 10 bolt. NAPA Charged me about $30 I think to do all of that. And a conversion U-Joint to mount my driveshaft to the 1350 Yoke. Another $30. Some of these are optional, others are needed (u-joint and bearings mostly). I just used the nuts off the brake backing plates on the t-bolts. It's your choice if you want to get new ones. You'll also need a 3' section of flexible fuel line (black hose, $2) to connect to the vent on the axle tube. I ran mine up the heat shield on the gas tank and out the back of the car. You could use a shorter piece if you like.

Mine is quiet under load and I've even launched it hard many times. There is one sweet spot at about 1800 RPM on a cruise where the car is barely freespinning the drivetrain where it howls a little. Not too bad, I like it quite a bit.

 

hey derty, who powder coated the 12 bolt?? Wasn't where you ordered it from was it? I would pay for that if it was an option when we ordered the 12 bolt.

Every heard of anyone being brave enough to have it ceramic coated by jet hot or one of those companies? Be wanting to clean it all the time because of it being silver and getting dirty all the time! Might look <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> though.

<small>[ September 11, 2002, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: badbird88 ]</small>

 

I got it powder coated locally at a shop. It doesn't come painted or coated in any way. If you don't get at least some paint on it soom it's gonna look like your 10 bolt in a week or two!

 

$$$ dumped into a ten bolt, don't even bother!! wait it out and invest in the Moser with a 4:10 gearing for your M6. You will LOVE IT!!!! Worth every penny. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

I guess I will differ from the other posts but I think buying a 12 bolt is a waste of money on a stock car. If you are not running 11's then is shouldn't be a problem especially if you will not be launching hard at a sticky track. Nitto's spin enough to keep most 10 bolts alive.

Replacement 10 bolts can be had cheap if you want the added insurance in case something starts to go wrong. Many times you get a lot of notice before it grenades due to the whine. You can get a new carrier from SLP for $99 and gears for $200. Install will run you a couple of hundred or just buy a used for cheap.

Personally I like the 3.42 gears with nitrous. It saves your rear-end longer and keeps your gas mileage up.

If I had $4000 .......

cam package - $800
Hooker LT's - $400 (shorty headers show no gains)
custom x-pipe and bullets - $500 (don't waste $$ on any cat-back)
LS1 edit - ??$250?? (how many people go in with you)
good clutch - $1000
TNT F1 wet w/warmer,window switch,purge - $1000

That should put you around $4000 - I bet you can find a local used rear end from somebody upgrading to a 12 bolt for less than $200.

Compared to the way you were going to spend $4000 - shorty headers ???, corsa cat back, 12-bolt, suspension - your car will be making less than 350 hp against a car making 390hp up without the juice and around 500-550 on the bottle. Just ease off the line with a 2.1-2 60 ft and trap out at 120+ mph and I think you will have a lot more fun than a car that can get a 1.8 60 ft if you have the traction but will only trap at 110mph.

Just food for thought - no one is ever right or wrong just different approaches. I just think having gobs of HP is fun and can make up for traction issues and there are ways of keeping a 10 bolt together.

Good luck!!
Eric

 

Eric I disagree with you. I finally broke by stock POS 10-bolt. Ordered and received within 7 days (from Thunder Racing) for $2150 (plue $86 shiping) by Moser 12-bolt. Dead silent. I 'only' run 12's on the engine. So us slow little bolt-on's can and do brake rear-ends.

To do over again, I think I would have put the 12-bolt in 1st, along with the suspension mods.

Just IMO

David

 

I live in South Florida - Fort Lauderdale Area, Deerfield Beach to be exact. =)

Here's the deal on my Moser 12 Bolt install..

The old rear dropped right out and the new one fit right in. Pressed bearings on the axles and installed them. I had to buy a U joint from Napa Auto Parts for $30 Part #447, very common piece. Also I had to buy some fine threaded nut to match these axle bolts as they didn't come with the rear end. I confirmed this with Mark at Ragin Motorsports (very nice guy). The only other snag I hit was my rear sway bar. The U bolts that hold the sway bar to the rear end don't fit. The axle housing on the stock 10 bolt is like 2-1/2" and the new 12 bolt is like 3". I just ran to Discount Auto and bought 2 3" U clamps. I then had to drill out the bolt holes on the metal plates that wrap around the rubber sway bar bushings. It was very simple to do, its easier than it sounds.

Oh yea I am also using a LG Motrosports Heavy Duty Torque Arm. The torque arm took a little finese to fit on, but its because its from LG. The stocker fits right on. As for my panhard bar, I have a 02 SS and the stock panhard bar easily clears the rear end cover by like an inch and a half, no problem there at all. I have the Moser Performance cover cost like $80 more, well worth it.

Oh yea one more thing.. My 12 bolt is completely silent!!! you cannot hear a thing. I am in heaven. I know in time it will start whine due to racing, but right now its friggin sweet.

Lee

 

David that's fair, but for me, I will not be buying a 12-bolt until my 10 bolt fails. Maybe not even then. Used 10 bolts are easy to come by, lose less hp to run, and the alternatives are very expensive.
You're pulling 1.6 60 ft's!! No wonder you're 10 bolt went south. That's an excellent hole shot for a 6 speed. If you kept your 60 ft's in the 2.0 range then your 10 bolt would probably be just fine. The car length you give up coming out of the hole can easily be made up in second and third gear if you have the hp. It's nothing for Mustangs to get the jump on me - by the time I get half way through second the race is over. If my car was stock but had a 12 bolt and suspension work as it's only mods then it would be a different race. I would still win but I would have to get a good launch and would barely out muscle him.
I'll stick by my theory that for the fun factor I will concede to a 2.0 60 ft. - but give me cam, headers, full exhaust and a 150 shot of juice.

 

It's like asking the question what would you do if you won a million dollars only less...lol <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> ! I agree with both of you in a way. I don't like NOS and never will use it for the fact that I want my engine to last for 100,000 miles or more so that is out. I like the cam idea with computer editing but wonder if that would void the warranty? Any comments on that? I like a good rumble but not something overly obnoxious which is the reason I chose the corsa but am open for other ideas. Definetly get a new air lid to replace teh stock one. Guess I should have mentioned the car is still bone stock.

 

M6 = get a 12 bolt
A4 = spend <$500 to upgrade the 10-bolt and have 1500+ for other stuff.

 

i love my 12 bolt i trashed my 10 bolt in about 15 passes.

 

FWIW, I like your idea Amarillo2