10 Bolt Question
Originally Posted by ls1muscle
> 10 bolt w/ 4.10's
> 6 speed
> 410 rwhp
> Nitto drag radials
Best 60' = 1.84
Not broke
> 6 speed
> 410 rwhp
> Nitto drag radials
Best 60' = 1.84
Not broke
Originally Posted by trackbird
Besides, if you're a poor college student, how did you build a 400 hp car? 
Good luck.
Good luck.
2002-2003 1989 Lincoln Mark VII Paid- Free Sold-800
2003-2004 1996 Mustang V6 Automatic Paid- 2800 Sold 6100
2004-2005 1992 Dodge Stealth TT Paid 9,300 Sold 11,000
2005-Now 1998 Camaro SS Paid 12,600
In 2003 I dropped outa college and started working full time I just recently went back to college. Put about 3,500 into my car and now I have 400RWHP.
Originally Posted by mzoomora
The 60ft tells the whole story. Get it hooking and leaving hard and see what it does. For what you have listed 1.84 isnt leaving hard at all.
Originally Posted by Johnnystock
I have the stock 10bolts and the mileage is 90k...its still in one piece with 475hp...but for how long?? 
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Originally Posted by mzoomora
If you think that it ELIMINATES any deflection you are wrong. The axle tubes themselves all the way to the end will deflect. The pinion in the housing will deflect, the carrier will deflect in the housing. Adding a couple of braces will not eliminate all that.
Also, that is not always what causes the carrier to snap, I would guess it isnt even the leading cause, but there is no way to know for sure. The fact is these cars are somewhat heavy depending on how they are optioned, the rear is small, the engines make power- all that is missing is traction. Regardless of deflection every piece is going to have a torque limit. You could put these gears or cases into a solid chunk of steel and they are still going to be relatively weak.
The budget build will strengthen it up, but in the end it is not worth it unless you are borderline living with the 10 bolt. 400whp is well on the other side of that border with traction.
Also, that is not always what causes the carrier to snap, I would guess it isnt even the leading cause, but there is no way to know for sure. The fact is these cars are somewhat heavy depending on how they are optioned, the rear is small, the engines make power- all that is missing is traction. Regardless of deflection every piece is going to have a torque limit. You could put these gears or cases into a solid chunk of steel and they are still going to be relatively weak.
The budget build will strengthen it up, but in the end it is not worth it unless you are borderline living with the 10 bolt. 400whp is well on the other side of that border with traction.
as a design engineer I modeled the rearend in solidworks and ran a stress test in a Finite Element Analysis (FEA) program called cosmos.
with the added strength of the girdle support, axle tubes welded to the pumpkin and support brackets welded from the axle tubes to the pumpkin acting as gussets the amount of force in pounds increased, hence allowing for more force with less stress. This measurement was based of the maximum von Mises stress criterion, which is based on the von Mises-Hencky theory.
So yes the amount of deflection significantly decreased. Is this a permanent fix, NO ITS NOT. however its a stronger bandage when someone is on a budget until a 12bolt is affordable. Does the 10 bolt still have a possibility of breaking, yes it does because as you said the parts are smaller.
In a budget situation. Welding up the axle tubes, welding in the gussets and a girdle is all I would do. I would save the aftermarket posi money and axle money to the side for a 12bolt.
for a budget setup, a summer car cammed with DRs, limited track passes. I am very positive it will hold fine!
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also a larger ring and pinion gear like a 4.10 is asking for trouble too, the larger gear has less material in turn making it weaker!
and LCA help alot in promoting rearend health.... less wheel hop is always good!
and LCA help alot in promoting rearend health.... less wheel hop is always good!
Last edited by ibanez7; Apr 5, 2007 at 12:19 AM.
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From: Saginaw, MI
The other thing that nobody talks about is the 10 bolt leaks like a sieve. How may are lost form low fluid or other set up problems. I almost ran mine out of fluid from a front pinion leak. Never a drop on the ground. I bet only half full with drag radials would have been bad, very bad. Is that truely the 10 bolts fault.
Originally Posted by ibanez7
as a design engineer I modeled the rearend in solidworks and ran a stress test in a Finite Element Analysis (FEA) program called cosmos.
with the added strength of the girdle support, axle tubes welded to the pumpkin and support brackets welded from the axle tubes to the pumpkin acting as gussets the amount of force in pounds increased, hence allowing for more force with less stress. This measurement was based of the maximum von Mises stress criterion, which is based on the von Mises-Hencky theory.
So yes the amount of deflection significantly decreased. Is this a permanent fix, NO ITS NOT. however its a stronger bandage when someone is on a budget until a 12bolt is affordable. Does the 10 bolt still have a possibility of breaking, yes it does because as you said the parts are smaller.
In a budget situation. Welding up the axle tubes, welding in the gussets and a girdle is all I would do. I would save the aftermarket posi money and axle money to the side for a 12bolt.
for a budget setup, a summer car cammed with DRs, limited track passes. I am very positive it will hold fine!
with the added strength of the girdle support, axle tubes welded to the pumpkin and support brackets welded from the axle tubes to the pumpkin acting as gussets the amount of force in pounds increased, hence allowing for more force with less stress. This measurement was based of the maximum von Mises stress criterion, which is based on the von Mises-Hencky theory.
So yes the amount of deflection significantly decreased. Is this a permanent fix, NO ITS NOT. however its a stronger bandage when someone is on a budget until a 12bolt is affordable. Does the 10 bolt still have a possibility of breaking, yes it does because as you said the parts are smaller.
In a budget situation. Welding up the axle tubes, welding in the gussets and a girdle is all I would do. I would save the aftermarket posi money and axle money to the side for a 12bolt.
for a budget setup, a summer car cammed with DRs, limited track passes. I am very positive it will hold fine!
Originally Posted by ibanez7
also a larger ring and pinion gear like a 4.10 is asking for trouble too, the larger gear has less material in turn making it weaker!
and LCA help alot in promoting rearend health.... less wheel hop is always good!
and LCA help alot in promoting rearend health.... less wheel hop is always good!
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From: Las Vegas, from Crystal Lake IL
Originally Posted by mzoomora
Thats fine that you ran all your simulations and such, but the fact remains that I have real world experience. I worked in the diff industry for 8 years and have seen what happens regardless of welded tubes, upgraded axles, etc. Even a Moser axles will strip the spline or break, a Richmond or Motive gear set will break, a Auburn or True-trac will snap, they are all size limited. Deflection and distrotion are secondary problems to the housing and tubes being to small. I agree if you can do the work yourself it isnt a bad idea to weld the tubes and do some minor upgrades. I would put maybe a few hundred into one of these rears to test a different ratio, or buy some time, but if you have to pay and you are going to be well over $1000 which is money better off saved.
I agree with you. its a budget way to buy time until a 12bolt can be bought.
I ran numerous 1.6 short times with just Nitto's, a stall, and a small dry shot when my car was nearly stock, all on the stock 10 bolt. Then one day, I broke it on the street.
It's gonna happen, might as well get something to back up the power.
It's gonna happen, might as well get something to back up the power.