CNBC Camaro Documentary!!
08-14-2008, 09:45 PM
#81
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What I always find so sadly overlooked is the fact that this is the first time in this nations history in which we had 5 years of economic growth,Production has increased every year, CEO pay is now 400+ times what the average wage earner is making, The wealthiest Americans earnings have tripled and the middle class wages have either raised only 1.5% or remained the same which means the bottom half declined in earnings. And yet it is suggested that this kind of economic theory works for the benefit of everyone in this country. Its only a way of creating concentrated wealth in the hands of the wealthiest people.
And yet the first one the finger gets pointed at by the general populus is the factory workers rather then really look at why labor costs are so high. Its not the fault of the UAW that the Healthcare costs have skyrocketed or the cost of living has become outrageous. The mentality seems to be any more that the worlds divided between the hard working people and the lazy people and the hard working people go to college and get a good paying job and the lazy people skip out on college and expect to be paid a really high wage. Some people I think feel that skilled trades workers earning over double the minimum wage is somehow underminding the work they did in earning a college degree in hopes of making a substantial amount more and finding out that they werent going to be paid much more.
And yet the first one the finger gets pointed at by the general populus is the factory workers rather then really look at why labor costs are so high. Its not the fault of the UAW that the Healthcare costs have skyrocketed or the cost of living has become outrageous. The mentality seems to be any more that the worlds divided between the hard working people and the lazy people and the hard working people go to college and get a good paying job and the lazy people skip out on college and expect to be paid a really high wage. Some people I think feel that skilled trades workers earning over double the minimum wage is somehow underminding the work they did in earning a college degree in hopes of making a substantial amount more and finding out that they werent going to be paid much more.
/\ /\ /\ I'm with this guy 100%.
08-15-2008, 07:15 AM
#83
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/undermine There ya go sir. My sincerest apologies for the misspelling
08-18-2008, 01:54 PM
#84
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$45K a year is classified as a living wage in this country. Sometimes just below it. If youre suggesting that they shouldnt be paid a living wage just because YOU claim to know what the jobs entail then I ask you who should be paid a living wage. I dont really think McDonalds workers have to worry about losing fingers or eye sight or possible death. Bear in mind these workers arent going home to huge $650,000 homes. People like you dont ever want to look at the excessive bonuses the hundreds of GM execs get and would rather point the finger at working middle class citizens. Not everyone is cut out to go to a 4year college and sit in an office so why should the world not offer oppertunity for those people to earn a living wage?
BTW...I dont think the UAW is what you think it is. GM hires their people and those same people they hire are the UAW and they can run for elected office within the union and even take part in the nation wide contracts. The UAW is not just some group of guys that act as a 3rd party and bully GM around the way you seem to describe it. The workers elect themselves to those positions not a fraternity
BTW...I dont think the UAW is what you think it is. GM hires their people and those same people they hire are the UAW and they can run for elected office within the union and even take part in the nation wide contracts. The UAW is not just some group of guys that act as a 3rd party and bully GM around the way you seem to describe it. The workers elect themselves to those positions not a fraternity
The reason unions were originally formed is to protect workers from unsafe work practices and to collect FAIR wages. Long before OHSA. Are there wages fair? This is the internet. We don't have to agree. Instead I have people telling me what I think. I know what I think. I do not agree with what sports figures, CEO's, and numerous others make. Hell there are a lot of people overpaid. You think a actor is worth 20 million just for appearing in a movie? UAW pay is not nearly that high. I will concede that.
Depending on where you live, 50k may or may not be a decent amount of money. In the regions were most factories are they are paid top dollar compared to other local industries. http://www.aftermarketnews.com/defau...e=art&id=80833
(puts flame suit on) Look at what Hyundai paid its workers. Bet they still showed up to work. Bottom line- $50k may or may not be good pay depending on where you live. In StL were I'm from its pretty damn good for a single income family. Social and economic backgrounds vary. And to me it seems more than fair pay.
08-18-2008, 01:58 PM
#85
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FYI I went to wyotech. Not a 4 year school. I learned one of those trades.
Look it up auto techs make less on average than a person putting the car together.
I have to be able to work on multiple aspects of a car and a assembly worker works on a select few parts.
Look it up auto techs make less on average than a person putting the car together.
I have to be able to work on multiple aspects of a car and a assembly worker works on a select few parts.
Last edited by ws6gluemaker; 08-18-2008 at 02:13 PM.
08-18-2008, 03:28 PM
#86
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This issue has always been in the world and always will be, arguing about it is pointless. The different classes (rich, poor and middle class) are needed. If your happy making 50k a year then you work towards that. The different classes give people something to work towards. I myself am not satisfied making lower pay and thus went through school and will continue to go to school to improve my lot in life. Its how things work who cares if someone with little education makes 60k a year after working for 10yrs at a job in the scheme of things its not that much money. IMO unions cause problems and fix problems and it depends on what side of the fence your on. If your a employer then they arent that great but if your a worker it saves your but
08-18-2008, 03:36 PM
#87
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Hey I here yeah. I know a **** load of people that went to Wyotech including my cousin and my best friend. Ive visited wyotech before and got a pretty good clue of just how in depth the classes are. Everyone I know that returned home from wyo tried to get jobs in the field they trained for and those that got them were dramaticly under paid for the skill level and d$%ked around by dealerships because didnt go to their prefered schooling. Many of those people are now UAW members in those factories and enjoying a living wage. I myself started out as a law student and tired quickly of the work lol! But I went to school and eventually gained a weld cirtification and now enjoy work as an elected labor official. I dont demand as much as a lawyer but at least a living wage for our workers seems fair.
08-18-2008, 06:10 PM
#88
No where did I ever say that execs aren't overpaid. I don't know how that came about but I never said it. Actually I think Wagoner should be canned. I do think that execs are overpaid. And yes the UAW has the LONE ABILITY to stop production across the country and bring the auto industry to its knees in this country.(and Canada too) No company in its right mind would want that. So they have a lot of power.
The reason unions were originally formed is to protect workers from unsafe work practices and to collect FAIR wages. Long before OHSA. Are there wages fair? This is the internet. We don't have to agree. Instead I have people telling me what I think. I know what I think. I do not agree with what sports figures, CEO's, and numerous others make. Hell there are a lot of people overpaid. You think a actor is worth 20 million just for appearing in a movie? UAW pay is not nearly that high. I will concede that.
Depending on where you live, 50k may or may not be a decent amount of money. In the regions were most factories are they are paid top dollar compared to other local industries. http://www.aftermarketnews.com/defau...e=art&id=80833
(puts flame suit on) Look at what Hyundai paid its workers. Bet they still showed up to work. Bottom line- $50k may or may not be good pay depending on where you live. In StL were I'm from its pretty damn good for a single income family. Social and economic backgrounds vary. And to me it seems more than fair pay.
The reason unions were originally formed is to protect workers from unsafe work practices and to collect FAIR wages. Long before OHSA. Are there wages fair? This is the internet. We don't have to agree. Instead I have people telling me what I think. I know what I think. I do not agree with what sports figures, CEO's, and numerous others make. Hell there are a lot of people overpaid. You think a actor is worth 20 million just for appearing in a movie? UAW pay is not nearly that high. I will concede that.
Depending on where you live, 50k may or may not be a decent amount of money. In the regions were most factories are they are paid top dollar compared to other local industries. http://www.aftermarketnews.com/defau...e=art&id=80833
(puts flame suit on) Look at what Hyundai paid its workers. Bet they still showed up to work. Bottom line- $50k may or may not be good pay depending on where you live. In StL were I'm from its pretty damn good for a single income family. Social and economic backgrounds vary. And to me it seems more than fair pay.
and those cake assembly jobs you keep referring to in your area that supoort families are slowly going away. would that make you happy? i was disappointed when ford and GM left here. thankfully this areas economy isnt dependent on the auto industry. i hope the big three add plants here again in the next few yrs. and i hope wages continue to grow.
08-18-2008, 08:18 PM
#89
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while you talk about hyundai you missed the point of the article that toyota pays similar wages and is still competitive. so i ask again. are they also overpaid or is it ok because theyre non union and toyota is threatened by the UAW?
and those cake assembly jobs you keep referring to in your area that supoort families are slowly going away. would that make you happy? i was disappointed when ford and GM left here. thankfully this areas economy isnt dependent on the auto industry. i hope the big three add plants here again in the next few yrs. and i hope wages continue to grow.
and those cake assembly jobs you keep referring to in your area that supoort families are slowly going away. would that make you happy? i was disappointed when ford and GM left here. thankfully this areas economy isnt dependent on the auto industry. i hope the big three add plants here again in the next few yrs. and i hope wages continue to grow.
08-18-2008, 08:27 PM
#90
The best part that people dont know is that Toyota is UAW made and has the same competetive wages that GM and Ford has. The common misconception is that foriegn automakers in this country means no union and thats acually false. Kinda blows the idea that the UAW is the "big problem" right outta the water.
sure does. isnt toyota executive pay much lower than big three exec pay?
08-18-2008, 08:49 PM
#91
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Oh yeah! Toyota Japan wont have a situation in which their American Execs are acually being paid more do to a higher currency rate. So while they make good money its no where near the pay GM and Ford execs get
08-18-2008, 10:45 PM
#92
I think the real problem is the way many American companies do business. Their thinking and strategies are too short sighted and are oriented toward making money now, not strengthening and building their companies to be viable forever. Union and executive pay are just symptoms of the bigger problem.
08-19-2008, 07:10 AM
#93
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I think the real problem is the way many American companies do business. Their thinking and strategies are too short sighted and are oriented toward making money now, not strengthening and building their companies to be viable forever. Union and executive pay are just symptoms of the bigger problem.
Lets try to keep in mind that these "$28 an hour" workers are 30+ year guys that have done their time and most are on their way out the door. I agree with the call to have new hires making a little less. Union contracts in general should be a progessive role for workers that hire on and stay for years and earn their retirement as the years progress. But the notion that the workers have an absurdly large paycheck is just dead wrong. Ask any GM exec and they will tell you the number 1 issue with labor costs is health care. Healthcare companies are raising their prices faster and higher everyday.
