Sell it or Keep it?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Sell it or Keep it? My silver 2000 A4 Formula has been the best car overall that I've owned. I've owned it 11 years and have had fun modding it, tuning it, taking it to the track, and just daily driving it. It has been dead reliable and has never left me stranded. The paint and interior are still in really good shape, enough that I get compliments on it from time to time.
A friend once said that GM cars are relatively trouble free until about 100k, and then the repairs begin. That has been pretty much true in my case - other than the usual window and headlight motors. I'm at 130k and since 100k I've done a water pump, fuel pump, rear main seal. I'm having the front wheel hubs replaced tomorrow. A couple of times lately I've heard a definite clunk when the car starts, and am thinking motor mounts.
One of my best friends has two shops and so I can either do the jobs there myself or with him. Or if I have his techs do it, I get a serious discount. But my fear is that the A/C compressor will go next. Rack & pinion won't last forever, my tranny is working great but has taken a beating over the years ... it's always used some oil but is using more lately, etc.
I've been thinking about selling since 95k or so. Once I get the current jobs done, the car will be in top running order, and as I said, looks great. I think this might be the time to sell.
My other thought is to shoot for 200k and beyond, knowing that there will be a fair amount of repairs in the offing.
Sorry for writing a book ... thoughts?
A friend once said that GM cars are relatively trouble free until about 100k, and then the repairs begin. That has been pretty much true in my case - other than the usual window and headlight motors. I'm at 130k and since 100k I've done a water pump, fuel pump, rear main seal. I'm having the front wheel hubs replaced tomorrow. A couple of times lately I've heard a definite clunk when the car starts, and am thinking motor mounts.
One of my best friends has two shops and so I can either do the jobs there myself or with him. Or if I have his techs do it, I get a serious discount. But my fear is that the A/C compressor will go next. Rack & pinion won't last forever, my tranny is working great but has taken a beating over the years ... it's always used some oil but is using more lately, etc.
I've been thinking about selling since 95k or so. Once I get the current jobs done, the car will be in top running order, and as I said, looks great. I think this might be the time to sell.
My other thought is to shoot for 200k and beyond, knowing that there will be a fair amount of repairs in the offing.
Sorry for writing a book ... thoughts?
Last edited by RevGTO; Aug 18, 2014 at 10:18 PM.
why is an ac compressor $1000 job just curious.
and yes parts do wear out, hence the "oil usage" my 98 doesnt use oil yet at 130k. I defiantly need a rack n pinion rebuild, i have an M6 thats getting a little rough with the synchros, could be rebuilt anytime soon, i defiantly need some front end suspension work or at least an alignment.
The point is cars will always need repairs, especially old ones
The real question is if the car is worth more in dollar bills or sentimentally, Do you plan on getting a new toy if you sell it? or are you older and more mature and feel like you've outgrown it?
and yes parts do wear out, hence the "oil usage" my 98 doesnt use oil yet at 130k. I defiantly need a rack n pinion rebuild, i have an M6 thats getting a little rough with the synchros, could be rebuilt anytime soon, i defiantly need some front end suspension work or at least an alignment.
The point is cars will always need repairs, especially old ones
The real question is if the car is worth more in dollar bills or sentimentally, Do you plan on getting a new toy if you sell it? or are you older and more mature and feel like you've outgrown it?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Maybe that price is exaggerated on the compressor. Because of your post, I just did some checking online and a new Denso compressor can be had for under $400 - not the over $600 I was thinking.
I'm not tired of the car at all - the only thing that bothers me about it sometimes is the harsh f-body ride.
I'd either take over my wife's G8 and get her something else, get myself a G8, or find a super low mile LS1 Firebird and start over.
I'm not tired of the car at all - the only thing that bothers me about it sometimes is the harsh f-body ride.
I'd either take over my wife's G8 and get her something else, get myself a G8, or find a super low mile LS1 Firebird and start over.
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
I think you'll have to expect most cars that are ~14 years old with 100k+ to need some repairs from time to time; I don't see this as a GM specific thing at all. My in-laws are import people and this has been the case for their cars as well, in fact they've had more issues with their modern toyotas and hondas than I've had with any of my modern GMs.
But back on point, I faced a similar choice earlier this year. My '02 Z28 was at 106k and there were a few things on the horizon that I knew needed to be addressed if I wanted to keep the car going for substantially longer. Ultimately I decided it was time to move on; a great deal of this decision was due to the fact that the car had been an all-weather driver and, even though the interior/exterior still looked great, the underside was starting to look like a crumb cake. I'm not opposed to putting money into an older car that I like, but the amount of underbody rust swayed me away from wanting to sink a significant sum of money into the car at that point. Once you start that process, you really have to be committed to the car to get your money's worth.
Like you, I also have a second 4th gen that has stayed with me. As such, I was more willing to part with the '02 as it didn't mean walking away from these cars in general. If not for this, selling would have been much more difficult.
Now, six months after selling the car and switching to a more "normal" daily driver, I do miss the '02 for all the fun that it was but, due to the same reasons that triggered this decision in the first place, I don't regret the decision to sell that particular car. Having said that, I would definitely consider another 4th gen as a spring/summer/fall daily driver if the right one came along, but I wouldn't expose it to winter again because doing so would just lead me right back to the same position I was in with the '02.
But back on point, I faced a similar choice earlier this year. My '02 Z28 was at 106k and there were a few things on the horizon that I knew needed to be addressed if I wanted to keep the car going for substantially longer. Ultimately I decided it was time to move on; a great deal of this decision was due to the fact that the car had been an all-weather driver and, even though the interior/exterior still looked great, the underside was starting to look like a crumb cake. I'm not opposed to putting money into an older car that I like, but the amount of underbody rust swayed me away from wanting to sink a significant sum of money into the car at that point. Once you start that process, you really have to be committed to the car to get your money's worth.
Like you, I also have a second 4th gen that has stayed with me. As such, I was more willing to part with the '02 as it didn't mean walking away from these cars in general. If not for this, selling would have been much more difficult.
Now, six months after selling the car and switching to a more "normal" daily driver, I do miss the '02 for all the fun that it was but, due to the same reasons that triggered this decision in the first place, I don't regret the decision to sell that particular car. Having said that, I would definitely consider another 4th gen as a spring/summer/fall daily driver if the right one came along, but I wouldn't expose it to winter again because doing so would just lead me right back to the same position I was in with the '02.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
I almost had a deal struck on a 15,000 mile A4 Trans Am, but I got too busy with work for a few days and it sold. If it had worked out, that would have settled the issue for me, although I much prefer Formulas to Trans Ams.
My undercarriage is pretty clean. The only rust issues are on the weld-in SFC's, and that can be addressed with a little rust converter and POR-15. Southern Kansas winters are mild compared with Chicago.
But my buddy who owns the shops and my brother who ran a number of service departments for years are advising me, "Now's the time, get your money out, sell it."
My undercarriage is pretty clean. The only rust issues are on the weld-in SFC's, and that can be addressed with a little rust converter and POR-15. Southern Kansas winters are mild compared with Chicago.
But my buddy who owns the shops and my brother who ran a number of service departments for years are advising me, "Now's the time, get your money out, sell it."
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Western North Carolina
I understand your thinking and can relate. If I see 100k on my odometer it would be sell time! That's me. I might even think that at 80k or 90k miles. It depends. The ownership experience would be going downhill most likely IMO and I wouldn't want that. I would buy another ultra low mileage F-body and let the enjoyment begin again. Since you are asking for opinions, that's me, but it may not apply to you or others. I understand that not everyone can just go out and buy another low mileage car, but if you can, that's the ticket. Good luck with what ever decision you make.
With 11 years of emotional equity in the thing, I'd just be making those very easy and affordable repairs. A few hundred and some of your time, or another car payment?
Maintenance is just that: maintenance
Maintenance is just that: maintenance
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I say keep it - pretty much echoing demonspeed's comment above me. Repairs are much cheaper than a new vehicle payment. Count in the fact that this is a car you've owned for a long time, and you know every detail/quirk with it. That familiarity creates a comfort with the car that is not easily replaced.
I have a '99 Z28 (M6) with about 96.5K on the clock, and have no rational thought of selling it. It is reliable, paid off, and I no longer care to be as fast as everyone else on the block. The car works for me.
I have a '99 Z28 (M6) with about 96.5K on the clock, and have no rational thought of selling it. It is reliable, paid off, and I no longer care to be as fast as everyone else on the block. The car works for me.
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
This is a good point. If replacing the car means taking on a payment, then my opinion would likely be different. Cash purchase or forget about it, IMO.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 6
From: Marengo, Ia
Unless your simply bored with it or sick of driving it you might as well keep it. With 130k miles on it it's a $7-8000 car. A G8 GT is a $17-18000 car, your going to have to do a lot of repairs before you reach that $10000 price difference. As for that harsh f-body ride, what brand of shocks do you have and possibly more importantly how long have they been on the car? Maybe something to add to the repair list.
I say sell it, if you are not deicated to it for life then you need to sell all your Pontiacs and get a Prius you damn yuppie!
J/K!!! Keep it and spend a couple hundred dollars each year to keep it going or get rid of it and spend a couple hundred a month on payments. That's the way I always look at it. Of course it helps to have a couple of spare cars.
J/K!!! Keep it and spend a couple hundred dollars each year to keep it going or get rid of it and spend a couple hundred a month on payments. That's the way I always look at it. Of course it helps to have a couple of spare cars.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 10
From: Maryland
Sounds like it's no different than any other car with around those miles, my '00 SS was starting to have those same types of quirks yours does, it had like 84k miles on it.
Keeping it and fixing it would be cheaper and it will probably last a long time after the repairs, however if you can swing it, it's very nice having a clean low mileage car, tough call.
Keeping it and fixing it would be cheaper and it will probably last a long time after the repairs, however if you can swing it, it's very nice having a clean low mileage car, tough call.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
I understand your thinking and can relate. If I see 100k on my odometer it would be sell time! That's me. I might even think that at 80k or 90k miles. It depends. The ownership experience would be going downhill most likely IMO and I wouldn't want that. I would buy another ultra low mileage F-body and let the enjoyment begin again. Since you are asking for opinions, that's me, but it may not apply to you or others. I understand that not everyone can just go out and buy another low mileage car, but if you can, that's the ticket. Good luck with what ever decision you make.
I'm well beyond 100k now, but I get the fact that sales tax and fees would be more expensive than needed repairs over the next couple of years. Not to mention interest on a loan; even if I took out a loan, I could easily get it paid off in a year or so ... so the basic question remains: is it time to get rid of this car?
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,647
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
I'm well beyond 100k now, but I get the fact that sales tax and fees would be more expensive than needed repairs over the next couple of years. Not to mention interest on a loan; even if I took out a loan, I could easily get it paid off in a year or so ... so the basic question remains: is it time to get rid of this car?
Here's a thought. If you could have the loan paid off in a year anyway, why not just drive the Formula for another year while setting aside the cash that you would have paid towards the loan? At it's current age, the Formula isn't going to lose much value in another 12 months assuming you keep it in it's current condition, and any minor loss of value or small repairs would be covered by the money saved from not paying interest on a loan over the next year. This gives you time to consider your decision, and you might come out ahead financially.
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If its paid for keep it, just fix the few issues thats wrong with it eventually itll be brand new. Hell there is plenty of people with these cars with higher mileage than yours. Modding these cars or any car really always takes away from the reliability period. So my suggestion is keep it if its paid off.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
It's been paid off for many. many years. Of the countless number of cars I've owned, this is only one of two that I've carried a loan on. I generally agree with RPM above; there no greater waste of money than on interest. Then there's the other colossal waste: taxes and fees.
On the other hand, I feel like mileage in the 130's still makes for a decent selling opportunity. 140's, 150's and the value continues to plummet while repairs are likely to continue.
I must say that now that the wheel hubs are done, I'm much happier with the thought of continuing to drive it. That and some other odd noises and rattles that developed recently were what really got me thinking about selling it.
For example, I have to position my sun visor exactly just so or it rattles. Annoying little old car stuff. But ... my door panels aren't cracked, my dash pad isn't cracked, and my sail panel isn't bubbling.
On the other hand, I feel like mileage in the 130's still makes for a decent selling opportunity. 140's, 150's and the value continues to plummet while repairs are likely to continue.
I must say that now that the wheel hubs are done, I'm much happier with the thought of continuing to drive it. That and some other odd noises and rattles that developed recently were what really got me thinking about selling it.
For example, I have to position my sun visor exactly just so or it rattles. Annoying little old car stuff. But ... my door panels aren't cracked, my dash pad isn't cracked, and my sail panel isn't bubbling.
