6.0L 550 rwhp build input needed...
10-10-2009, 03:34 PM
#1
6.0L 550 rwhp build input needed... after i get back off my 4th deployment from iraq i am going to start building an engine..i want close to 600 rwhp all motor..not sure where i need to start but i KNOW there are some KILLER combos here on this site..and instead of PM'g half the members here i thought i should go ahead and ask yall what actually works..
the car will either be a 70-73 camaro with a 2.5 " cowl hood or a 98-02 camaro. with a sunoco hood, EITHER WAY they will be runnin 315's ...it WILL be a 6 speed car..not sure on gears or rear end yet..but this thread is for the right engine build...not worried about the gear set up right now..i know it will be a ram VDS clutch set up or a monster w/ a spec flywheel.. cant make up my mind on either an LT1 or an LS1 6 speed.maby an MN12...but i really want to know what yall are running..
Maby later on down the road i will add a procharger or nitrous..but right now i want it all motor..i have found numerous 5.3L engines on ebay for steals..long blocks minus accessories starting bid was $150 so i am looking that way right now..however there is no replacement for displacement.
I want a bullet proof combo that has been proven numerous times for crazy power..i would prefer not to buy a pre assembled short block as most sponsors DO NOT take any kind of payment plan but the parts supplier i know of does..
Regardeless..here is what i was thinking..take an LS2 Drivetrain and go with a 402 set up, but which heads/valves/intake tb/valvetrain? Compression ratio? which cam to run? lifters, rockers? etc.. this thread is just to get me pointed in the right direction so i know which block to buy, which pistons to buy, if the pistons will need a valve relief pre cut into them? what size injectors? what should the compression ratio be? which heads are best?
Should i use stock heads and get the P&P work done to them? if so by who? what gaskets would be best? either way it would have ARP bolts throughout, clevitte 77 bearrings * unless there is a better brand* which rings should i run?
I know that this is an immense amount to ask of the members on this board, but i figured with all the sponsors on this board, and all the kick *** combos out here that, if i wanted the absolute best answers that this would be the best place to ask.
again thank you for your interest, responses and imput. and if you have had a bad deal through an engine build feel FREE TO PM ME as i dont want to invest the money to get a shitty job..although i dont want to discredit any shop..There are always circumstances...i still want a quality build, that makes badass power..i know quality isnt cheap either..so let it begin!!!
**also open to other engine combos ideas...
the car will either be a 70-73 camaro with a 2.5 " cowl hood or a 98-02 camaro. with a sunoco hood, EITHER WAY they will be runnin 315's ...it WILL be a 6 speed car..not sure on gears or rear end yet..but this thread is for the right engine build...not worried about the gear set up right now..i know it will be a ram VDS clutch set up or a monster w/ a spec flywheel.. cant make up my mind on either an LT1 or an LS1 6 speed.maby an MN12...but i really want to know what yall are running..
Maby later on down the road i will add a procharger or nitrous..but right now i want it all motor..i have found numerous 5.3L engines on ebay for steals..long blocks minus accessories starting bid was $150 so i am looking that way right now..however there is no replacement for displacement.
I want a bullet proof combo that has been proven numerous times for crazy power..i would prefer not to buy a pre assembled short block as most sponsors DO NOT take any kind of payment plan but the parts supplier i know of does..
Regardeless..here is what i was thinking..take an LS2 Drivetrain and go with a 402 set up, but which heads/valves/intake tb/valvetrain? Compression ratio? which cam to run? lifters, rockers? etc.. this thread is just to get me pointed in the right direction so i know which block to buy, which pistons to buy, if the pistons will need a valve relief pre cut into them? what size injectors? what should the compression ratio be? which heads are best?
Should i use stock heads and get the P&P work done to them? if so by who? what gaskets would be best? either way it would have ARP bolts throughout, clevitte 77 bearrings * unless there is a better brand* which rings should i run?
I know that this is an immense amount to ask of the members on this board, but i figured with all the sponsors on this board, and all the kick *** combos out here that, if i wanted the absolute best answers that this would be the best place to ask.
again thank you for your interest, responses and imput. and if you have had a bad deal through an engine build feel FREE TO PM ME as i dont want to invest the money to get a shitty job..although i dont want to discredit any shop..There are always circumstances...i still want a quality build, that makes badass power..i know quality isnt cheap either..so let it begin!!!
**also open to other engine combos ideas...
Last edited by Black FormulaLs1; 10-10-2009 at 03:37 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar
10-11-2009, 07:02 AM
#4
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There are a number of reputable engine builders on this site. HKE and LME are just 2 that immediatley pop into my head. There are endless combos you can put together with an LS2 block as a foundation. Going with an LS3 GM head and intake would be an economical choice and they seem to work well with the rectangular port design and move air well into the higher RPM's. Shooting for high 500's N/A will be possible but would take a fairly aggressive setup with just over 400 inches. The heads and cam as a combo is whats gonna determine alot along with how hard your willing to turn the motor. Let the engine builder worry about flycutting for PTV, compression ect they will be getting paid for it. Best bet is to call and discuss it with them, including future plans for the motor (nitrous,blower etc) as that could effect parts used you have to start somewhere tho right?
10-11-2009, 07:16 AM
#5
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You can check with New Century Performance. They have built several LS motors. I would think they would be someone you would want to contact, and at least speak with them. They seem to be very good at making a ton of horsepower.
They built a 502 with 9:1 compression for me, it made close to 800hp on 93 octane. There going to be doing my LS1 I have now.
Tell them Brian with the Malibu told you to call, also let them know your a Vet. It matters to them. You will get a little extra, that others dont get. As you should.
www.newcenturyperformance.com or (618) 466-6383
Thanks for all you have done Bro.
They built a 502 with 9:1 compression for me, it made close to 800hp on 93 octane. There going to be doing my LS1 I have now.
Tell them Brian with the Malibu told you to call, also let them know your a Vet. It matters to them. You will get a little extra, that others dont get. As you should.
www.newcenturyperformance.com or (618) 466-6383
Thanks for all you have done Bro.
10-11-2009, 04:32 PM
#6
would like to say thank you guys for your imput.. i have saved thier pages to my favorites under my engine build folder.. i know that there are lots of bad *** builds here, and am mechanically inclined. however i am not an engine builder..
i was thinking that i was able to buy the right parts, then ship them to get assembled, and balanced that i would be able to save some cash in order to buy other parts..
i just want the engine to be dead nuts reliable, be able to rev to 7k RPM make damn good power..
here is what i was thinking...please for all of you who have 700 ish rwhp...please feel free to chime in and no you wont offend me..
would an LS2/402 forged short block work? was thinking, forged mahle pistons *coated* forged mahle rods, hellfire rings,ARP bolts, clevitte 77 bearrings-main and cam- caloyes timing chain *double roller* ported oil pump or a melling high volume oil pump, but i dont know about compression.. please help...
am kind of looking for a recipe for 10.0's on motor...i been thinkin bout gears and came up with 3:90s or 4:11's...the car would be street drivin but also able to tear down the 1/4.
thanks again..and Madman Co. if you are reading this i will be in touch with you too..power is great, but doesnt mean **** if it wont hook..
i was thinking that i was able to buy the right parts, then ship them to get assembled, and balanced that i would be able to save some cash in order to buy other parts..
i just want the engine to be dead nuts reliable, be able to rev to 7k RPM make damn good power..
here is what i was thinking...please for all of you who have 700 ish rwhp...please feel free to chime in and no you wont offend me..
would an LS2/402 forged short block work? was thinking, forged mahle pistons *coated* forged mahle rods, hellfire rings,ARP bolts, clevitte 77 bearrings-main and cam- caloyes timing chain *double roller* ported oil pump or a melling high volume oil pump, but i dont know about compression.. please help...
am kind of looking for a recipe for 10.0's on motor...i been thinkin bout gears and came up with 3:90s or 4:11's...the car would be street drivin but also able to tear down the 1/4.
thanks again..and Madman Co. if you are reading this i will be in touch with you too..power is great, but doesnt mean **** if it wont hook..
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10-12-2009, 09:32 AM
#8
would like to say thank you guys for your imput.. i have saved thier pages to my favorites under my engine build folder.. i know that there are lots of bad *** builds here, and am mechanically inclined. however i am not an engine builder..
i was thinking that i was able to buy the right parts, then ship them to get assembled, and balanced that i would be able to save some cash in order to buy other parts..
i just want the engine to be dead nuts reliable, be able to rev to 7k RPM make damn good power..
here is what i was thinking...please for all of you who have 700 ish rwhp...please feel free to chime in and no you wont offend me..
would an LS2/402 forged short block work? was thinking, forged mahle pistons *coated* forged mahle rods, hellfire rings,ARP bolts, clevitte 77 bearrings-main and cam- caloyes timing chain *double roller* ported oil pump or a melling high volume oil pump, but i dont know about compression.. please help...
am kind of looking for a recipe for 10.0's on motor...i been thinkin bout gears and came up with 3:90s or 4:11's...the car would be street drivin but also able to tear down the 1/4.
thanks again..and Madman Co. if you are reading this i will be in touch with you too..power is great, but doesnt mean **** if it wont hook..
i was thinking that i was able to buy the right parts, then ship them to get assembled, and balanced that i would be able to save some cash in order to buy other parts..
i just want the engine to be dead nuts reliable, be able to rev to 7k RPM make damn good power..
here is what i was thinking...please for all of you who have 700 ish rwhp...please feel free to chime in and no you wont offend me..
would an LS2/402 forged short block work? was thinking, forged mahle pistons *coated* forged mahle rods, hellfire rings,ARP bolts, clevitte 77 bearrings-main and cam- caloyes timing chain *double roller* ported oil pump or a melling high volume oil pump, but i dont know about compression.. please help...
am kind of looking for a recipe for 10.0's on motor...i been thinkin bout gears and came up with 3:90s or 4:11's...the car would be street drivin but also able to tear down the 1/4.
thanks again..and Madman Co. if you are reading this i will be in touch with you too..power is great, but doesnt mean **** if it wont hook..
You can run 10's on a 403 or 408 as long as things are set up properly. (heck I think I've seen 10's on here with a 346)
Here is a link to some of our builds. Everyone of those will run 10's with the right suspension and top end. The 457 long block is a 9 sec combo.
http://www.ccperformanceparts.com/HKE.html
10-14-2009, 04:48 PM
#9
99BlancoSS--
Balance rotating assembly does not include the price of installing any heavy metal
what exactly does that mean? and is your 408 an iron block? or aluminum? which head/cam pkg would be best? i am trying to get the best combo picked out..and your website was very very informative, with exact details goes into which engine build..
which would have better street manners? the 408 or the 418? what kind of oil pump/oil pan would be best? and where would i get it? what about all the engine accessories ie: water pump t-stat,balancer etc...
if i was able to purchase an assembled shortblock, could it sit for a while as i would have to save up money to get the heads/cam/intake/tb/lifters/rockers/pushrods/...what injectors would be best?.
would the shortblock come with any kind of a warranty? i saw heads/cam pkgs are from AFR...who makes the cam? is it a custom grind? could i substitute Trick Flow heads? or do you guys carry those? if i bought the short block from you, and a heads-cam package from somebody else would it void any warranty?
again sorry for so damn many questions..but i want to be as informed as possible and an engine that will hold up for years to come.
Balance rotating assembly does not include the price of installing any heavy metal
what exactly does that mean? and is your 408 an iron block? or aluminum? which head/cam pkg would be best? i am trying to get the best combo picked out..and your website was very very informative, with exact details goes into which engine build..
which would have better street manners? the 408 or the 418? what kind of oil pump/oil pan would be best? and where would i get it? what about all the engine accessories ie: water pump t-stat,balancer etc...
if i was able to purchase an assembled shortblock, could it sit for a while as i would have to save up money to get the heads/cam/intake/tb/lifters/rockers/pushrods/...what injectors would be best?.
would the shortblock come with any kind of a warranty? i saw heads/cam pkgs are from AFR...who makes the cam? is it a custom grind? could i substitute Trick Flow heads? or do you guys carry those? if i bought the short block from you, and a heads-cam package from somebody else would it void any warranty?
again sorry for so damn many questions..but i want to be as informed as possible and an engine that will hold up for years to come.
11-02-2009, 09:47 AM
#12
Yes a 408 will be a stout base. If you want to get ballsy you can have an iron block bored to 4.07" and throw in a 4.100" crank for a 427. I chose Wiseco pistons for my build and a Compstar crank. LS3/L92 heads and intake would be very economical and make loads of power. For the cam contact PatrickG and fill out his questionare and he will set you up.
11-02-2009, 10:25 AM
#13
99BlancoSS--
Balance rotating assembly does not include the price of installing any heavy metal
what exactly does that mean? and is your 408 an iron block? or aluminum? which head/cam pkg would be best? i am trying to get the best combo picked out..and your website was very very informative, with exact details goes into which engine build..
which would have better street manners? the 408 or the 418? what kind of oil pump/oil pan would be best? and where would i get it? what about all the engine accessories ie: water pump t-stat,balancer etc...
if i was able to purchase an assembled shortblock, could it sit for a while as i would have to save up money to get the heads/cam/intake/tb/lifters/rockers/pushrods/...what injectors would be best?.
would the shortblock come with any kind of a warranty? i saw heads/cam pkgs are from AFR...who makes the cam? is it a custom grind? could i substitute Trick Flow heads? or do you guys carry those? if i bought the short block from you, and a heads-cam package from somebody else would it void any warranty?
again sorry for so damn many questions..but i want to be as informed as possible and an engine that will hold up for years to come.
Balance rotating assembly does not include the price of installing any heavy metal
what exactly does that mean? and is your 408 an iron block? or aluminum? which head/cam pkg would be best? i am trying to get the best combo picked out..and your website was very very informative, with exact details goes into which engine build..
which would have better street manners? the 408 or the 418? what kind of oil pump/oil pan would be best? and where would i get it? what about all the engine accessories ie: water pump t-stat,balancer etc...
if i was able to purchase an assembled shortblock, could it sit for a while as i would have to save up money to get the heads/cam/intake/tb/lifters/rockers/pushrods/...what injectors would be best?.
would the shortblock come with any kind of a warranty? i saw heads/cam pkgs are from AFR...who makes the cam? is it a custom grind? could i substitute Trick Flow heads? or do you guys carry those? if i bought the short block from you, and a heads-cam package from somebody else would it void any warranty?
again sorry for so damn many questions..but i want to be as informed as possible and an engine that will hold up for years to come.
The 408 is a an iron block as is the 418. The 418 is a n/a application only.
The balance thing/ heavy metal thing is a standard disclaimer, it really wont apply to an engine from me as I incorporate all the costs to begin with. I'll remove the line so it doesn't cause confusion
As far as street manners ... thats all about cam choice .. but as a rule of thumb the bigger you with the cubic go the less of a cam you need to run.
Oil pump we have a Meling HV that we use. The normal pressure spring is installed and HKE clearances it to work with a double roller. (fit under the timing cover)
Oil pan you use your existing one
For a damper I like the ATI Superdamper
As far as the rest of the accessories you use what you already have.. unless you don't have an fbody right now? If not then we're looking at a crate style build and I can supply all those thing for you although you would save money by buying some stuff used.
As far as buying the short and letting it sit for a while.. it all depends on your shop or storage location but I really don't think its a good idea. Even though the engine will be bagged and should be somewhat airtight, over a long time moisture/condensation has a way of getting into things. I'd rather you saved for the other stuff first and bought it when you were ready to use it.
hope this helps
Last edited by 99blancoSS; 11-02-2009 at 10:33 AM.
11-03-2009, 06:29 AM
#14
so you can spray or boost a 408 then..how much boost/ nitrous can they take? is it possible to get an off the shelf heads/cam combo and put on a forged bottom end 408 and make 600+rwhp?
am i to understand that all the stock LS1 accessories will bolt right on and go with a 408? or do i have to get truck accessories? i think while i am deployed i will go ahead and start buying accessories.
.** I am trying to sell my formula** and the car goes complete so would need to buy accessories..
which heads fit a 408? the 317's? and what else? is it cheaper to buy a good core set and send them to get cleaned P&P w/ guides or just buy a set ready to go? what CC would be best? valves? rockers?springs? complete kit maby?
if i was going to spray it * eventually i would* i would really like to know it would hold together under a 200-300 pregressive hit...so what kind of intake would be necessary? fuel system for that matter..was thinkin walboro 255 x2?
i dont mean to ask so damn many questions..but unlike some people on this board i dont have a checkbook to just up and write out a list of what i want done...**** aint cheap, and quality work aint either...if i can do this...i will probably only be able to do it once..so i have to make sure that its right..
am i to understand that all the stock LS1 accessories will bolt right on and go with a 408? or do i have to get truck accessories? i think while i am deployed i will go ahead and start buying accessories.
.** I am trying to sell my formula** and the car goes complete so would need to buy accessories..
which heads fit a 408? the 317's? and what else? is it cheaper to buy a good core set and send them to get cleaned P&P w/ guides or just buy a set ready to go? what CC would be best? valves? rockers?springs? complete kit maby?
if i was going to spray it * eventually i would* i would really like to know it would hold together under a 200-300 pregressive hit...so what kind of intake would be necessary? fuel system for that matter..was thinkin walboro 255 x2?
i dont mean to ask so damn many questions..but unlike some people on this board i dont have a checkbook to just up and write out a list of what i want done...**** aint cheap, and quality work aint either...if i can do this...i will probably only be able to do it once..so i have to make sure that its right..
11-03-2009, 11:50 AM
#15
1CAMWNDR says: If you want to get ballsy you can have an iron block bored to 4.07" and throw in a 4.100" crank for a 427.
so would that be the best best? or an 408? the 408 to me makes most sense and seems to be more available...
**However - There is no Replacement for Displacement**-and i think 427 badges on a 4th gen camaro are just fkn sexxxy.
i have seen shortblocks on ebay from 3500 and up..howseomever i think i would be a dumbass to NOT use a vendor on this site...i honestly cant see a vendor here burning somebody on a build..
and which heads/cam/intake/tb would ANY of you who make 600rwhp Reccommend for EITHER the 427 or the 408? and personally i dont give a damn bout the extra 80lbs if you are makin enough power..
so would that be the best best? or an 408? the 408 to me makes most sense and seems to be more available...
**However - There is no Replacement for Displacement**-and i think 427 badges on a 4th gen camaro are just fkn sexxxy.
i have seen shortblocks on ebay from 3500 and up..howseomever i think i would be a dumbass to NOT use a vendor on this site...i honestly cant see a vendor here burning somebody on a build..
and which heads/cam/intake/tb would ANY of you who make 600rwhp Reccommend for EITHER the 427 or the 408? and personally i dont give a damn bout the extra 80lbs if you are makin enough power..
11-03-2009, 01:13 PM
#18
Yes, an L92/LS3 block with forged internals and a 4" crank is 416" and with LS3 heads and a good cam you will be all over 550 rwhp. Would that be cheaper than an iron 408 or 427?? I have no idea.
11-08-2009, 11:00 AM
#19
what about those on here making 600rwhp...what set up are you running? heads/cam/intake/tb/ i know that the cam numbers is probably going to be secret squirrell stuff...but i want the right dang combination..i know who to get the tranny from and the rearend..just want the engine right..
anybody got a asembled longblock that will get it done?
anybody got a asembled longblock that will get it done?
11-08-2009, 11:19 AM
#20
what about those on here making 600rwhp...what set up are you running? heads/cam/intake/tb/ i know that the cam numbers is probably going to be secret squirrell stuff...but i want the right dang combination..i know who to get the tranny from and the rearend..just want the engine right..
anybody got a asembled longblock that will get it done?
anybody got a asembled longblock that will get it done?
Budget is the key. HKE 408's w/TFS 235's typically see 550 and have seen 585 to the wheels but have made 600+ as well. The 408 short block solid roller though is as much money as a 457 short block. I would rather the 457 is a street car, the 408 would be for a racing class.
Cubic inches is your friend
