FAST 92 vs FAST 102
11-11-2012, 06:26 PM
#43
I picked up 41rwhp and tq from a ported fast 92... I soubt i'd have gotten as much under the curve either with a 102... The 102 on a 5.7 will loose more all over and will just peak a bit higher... They are really only good for big cubes/ blower set ups
11-11-2012, 07:24 PM
#46
11-11-2012, 07:30 PM
#47
"Long story short the 102 is a better design than the original 78/90/92 mm series which were all essentially the same exact intake with different sized TB entrances.
The 102 is not better by virtue of its larger TB opening btw....its a clean sheet design with removable runners that sit in the new base with an O ring seal around each port. The 102 also features a much more rugged build quality (its actually 3 lbs heavier which is significant when we are discussing a plastic intake). Gone is the 100 miles of internal rope seal that was a nightmare to deal with if any of the older design manifolds came apart.
The runners are more optimized with better (improved) radius'ed entries and a more desirable shape and cross sectional area thru the entire port (the manifold is also taller btw and they use the additional real estate to help create a better port design). The outlet of the manifold is also much less compromised than the original.
Out of the box to out of the box the 102 manifold is clearly better offering more performance potential. But whats even better is the new design allows me more freedom from the aspect of further porting and modifying for even greater results for the guys wanting to get the most from the install. To be honest I used to take a little more material out of the older design intakes but now I'm actually removing more (in different locations) from the new design (102 mm versions) but the end results are far superior when I test an intake port of a good cylinder head thru one of my 102 ported intakes versus one of the older 90/92 mm intakes. There is no comparison....I'm seeing 10-15 more CFM net to the cylinder (on a 350+ CFM head like the AFR 245) thru an optimized 102 than I ever saw with the ported 92's I used to work on. The main reason that's possible is the different construction/design of the 102 affording me more "freedom" with the grinder.....I would have put a hole on the older design intakes in areas I'm purposely getting aggressive with the new design 102 piece.
If your going to take the plunge the 102 is the way to go and Im not even going to get into a long diatribe on the largest Internet myth out there ("its too big for a 346"). Bottom line the size of the throttle opening could be 200 mm......it doesn't matter because we are just moving air, not trying to atomize fuel (thats where the myth comes from....old school problems of carbs too large to be effective). What really matters is the length and CSA of the runners and they are more than acceptable for a deep breathing 346 (especially with an aftermarket set of heads) and much larger motors as well. Its a very flexible design and its really hard to beat for your typical street strip applications".
-Tony Mamo @ AFR
The 102 is not better by virtue of its larger TB opening btw....its a clean sheet design with removable runners that sit in the new base with an O ring seal around each port. The 102 also features a much more rugged build quality (its actually 3 lbs heavier which is significant when we are discussing a plastic intake). Gone is the 100 miles of internal rope seal that was a nightmare to deal with if any of the older design manifolds came apart.
The runners are more optimized with better (improved) radius'ed entries and a more desirable shape and cross sectional area thru the entire port (the manifold is also taller btw and they use the additional real estate to help create a better port design). The outlet of the manifold is also much less compromised than the original.
Out of the box to out of the box the 102 manifold is clearly better offering more performance potential. But whats even better is the new design allows me more freedom from the aspect of further porting and modifying for even greater results for the guys wanting to get the most from the install. To be honest I used to take a little more material out of the older design intakes but now I'm actually removing more (in different locations) from the new design (102 mm versions) but the end results are far superior when I test an intake port of a good cylinder head thru one of my 102 ported intakes versus one of the older 90/92 mm intakes. There is no comparison....I'm seeing 10-15 more CFM net to the cylinder (on a 350+ CFM head like the AFR 245) thru an optimized 102 than I ever saw with the ported 92's I used to work on. The main reason that's possible is the different construction/design of the 102 affording me more "freedom" with the grinder.....I would have put a hole on the older design intakes in areas I'm purposely getting aggressive with the new design 102 piece.
If your going to take the plunge the 102 is the way to go and Im not even going to get into a long diatribe on the largest Internet myth out there ("its too big for a 346"). Bottom line the size of the throttle opening could be 200 mm......it doesn't matter because we are just moving air, not trying to atomize fuel (thats where the myth comes from....old school problems of carbs too large to be effective). What really matters is the length and CSA of the runners and they are more than acceptable for a deep breathing 346 (especially with an aftermarket set of heads) and much larger motors as well. Its a very flexible design and its really hard to beat for your typical street strip applications".
-Tony Mamo @ AFR
11-11-2012, 08:22 PM
#49
Anyone that has installed a 102 intake before. Will this water pump fit?
http://texas-speed.com/p-3092-moroso...ls-series.aspx it looks like it but i want to be sure
Also is this everything i need?
http://texas-speed.com/p-679-fast-ls...-tb-combo.aspx
http://texas-speed.com/p-3092-moroso...ls-series.aspx it looks like it but i want to be sure
Also is this everything i need?
http://texas-speed.com/p-679-fast-ls...-tb-combo.aspx
11-11-2012, 08:43 PM
#52
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^ Thank you.... and No.. The 102 is not "too big" for the 346. The TB size/opening is not the whole story behind the 102. I'm so tired of hearing that and I hope we have dispelled that damn rumor by now. 8 individual runners that share a common plenum. Basically an ITB intake with a big TB.
It will fit, but do you want a race pump with no bell/pulley for the belt?
I had my LSXNation sticker in the same spot..
And that SLP is actually worth that much that I would still reconsider using it on a 102/102 combo. Sometimes I wonder how much they can "restrict."
Anyone that has installed a 102 intake before. Will this water pump fit?
http://texas-speed.com/p-3092-moroso...ls-series.aspx it looks like it but i want to be sure
Also is this everything i need?
http://texas-speed.com/p-679-fast-ls...-tb-combo.aspx
http://texas-speed.com/p-3092-moroso...ls-series.aspx it looks like it but i want to be sure
Also is this everything i need?
http://texas-speed.com/p-679-fast-ls...-tb-combo.aspx
I had my LSXNation sticker in the same spot..
And that SLP is actually worth that much that I would still reconsider using it on a 102/102 combo. Sometimes I wonder how much they can "restrict." Last edited by bayer-z28; 11-11-2012 at 08:52 PM.
11-11-2012, 08:53 PM
#53
umm im not sure yet. I think it would be neat if i could tie that in with the fan and put a switch on the dash to control both of them. Like after a pass at the track i can shut the car off and keep the cooling system going. It was just the first one i found, and im still trying to work through the injector issue so i dont have time right now to find a stock LS2 pump. If its only $100 more ill probably get the race one, however if its $250-$101 more then ill stay stock and save the money for other parts of the car.
11-11-2012, 09:02 PM
#55
is it that big of a hassle? Im used to building older cars, and im new to the newer cars and the computers and that stuff. I know with the older cars it was nbd just hook it up with power and ground and put a switch in so itll break that circuit. I dont want to have to rewire a bunch of stuff so i guess ill just go with a mechanical pump. Where should i get one?
11-12-2012, 06:11 AM
#56
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^ The race pump would be for a dedicated track car with a different Serp system that would only use the Alt, and maybe a vacuum pump and/or oil pump. It won't involve "re-wiring" as such, but you would have to re-do the serp system to eliminate the WP pulley. It's not as easy as to just leave it off. I've been thinking about messing around with this some time.
And check Napa, GMPD, Dealership or Autozone for an LS2 water pump from an 05-06 GTO. It just won't have that extra boss and bolt that would get in the way of a 102TB. If you're running a 92mm TB, you may not need it.
And as far as these newer cars with PCM's and what not, it's really not that bad. These 98-02's have some of the simplest but most effective, engine management systems. As far as the PCM doesn't really restrict you as much as the newer ones with electric throttle control, or even some of the european cars that monitor EVERYTHING. It's basically just engine monitoring and that's pretty much it. Cam sensor, crank sensor, coolant temp, air temp, O2 sensors, throttle position and idle control, and MAP + MAF sensors which create a dynamic air model which is very effective at measuring incoming air. That's it. If I can sum it up in a paragraph, it's not that complicated.
Intake = MAP, MAF, IAT, ECT, TPS then the fuel is burned and the O2's tell the PCM how far it is away from your target mixture. And the Cam/Crank sensors, MAP/MAF, ECT, IAT and knock sensors are used to determine spark.
And check Napa, GMPD, Dealership or Autozone for an LS2 water pump from an 05-06 GTO. It just won't have that extra boss and bolt that would get in the way of a 102TB. If you're running a 92mm TB, you may not need it.
And as far as these newer cars with PCM's and what not, it's really not that bad. These 98-02's have some of the simplest but most effective, engine management systems. As far as the PCM doesn't really restrict you as much as the newer ones with electric throttle control, or even some of the european cars that monitor EVERYTHING. It's basically just engine monitoring and that's pretty much it. Cam sensor, crank sensor, coolant temp, air temp, O2 sensors, throttle position and idle control, and MAP + MAF sensors which create a dynamic air model which is very effective at measuring incoming air. That's it. If I can sum it up in a paragraph, it's not that complicated.
Intake = MAP, MAF, IAT, ECT, TPS then the fuel is burned and the O2's tell the PCM how far it is away from your target mixture. And the Cam/Crank sensors, MAP/MAF, ECT, IAT and knock sensors are used to determine spark.
Last edited by bayer-z28; 11-12-2012 at 06:23 AM.
