Throttle Bypass Test
Originally Posted by skunk50
only way to tell is to do back-to-back pulls on a dyno (after letting the tb cool down). but who would spend $75 for dyno time for this. and 1-2 hp can be lot's of other things. but a filter can give 1-2 hp that you won't feel, but how come nobody questions if it works or not....as much as questioning this mod...and this mod is cheaper too.
I did do the mod tho because it was so easy and auto zone had all the parts for a total of $4. took maybe 10 minutes for actual install.
I friend of mine was testing a couple throttle bodies on a dyno a coupel mopnths back. We kept hooking up the line on all the throttle bodies as we swapped, only because the stock setup had it on, and we wanted to be consistant. After we got done, we had about 75 minutes of dyno time left that we had payed for already, so we let his car cool for 20 minutes like we did for all the other pulls, then started the car, let it run for 10 minutes like we did for all the other tests, and the mod yielded a 1HP and .8 TQ gain to the tires, we let the car cool for 20 minutes, did it again, same result. Not that that is enough power to say that it did anything, but that was the result. I did it to my car, and after driving long enough to that the engine is up to temp, the throttle response does seem slightly better. Enough to see at the track, no, but again, doesn't hurt. I would imagine that on a forced induction car, the drop on TB temp would probably be more important.
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 430
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From: Pasadena, CA
Originally Posted by JL ws-6
I friend of mine was testing a couple throttle bodies on a dyno a coupel mopnths back. We kept hooking up the line on all the throttle bodies as we swapped, only because the stock setup had it on, and we wanted to be consistant. After we got done, we had about 75 minutes of dyno time left that we had payed for already, so we let his car cool for 20 minutes like we did for all the other pulls, then started the car, let it run for 10 minutes like we did for all the other tests, and the mod yielded a 1HP and .8 TQ gain to the tires, we let the car cool for 20 minutes, did it again, same result. Not that that is enough power to say that it did anything, but that was the result. I did it to my car, and after driving long enough to that the engine is up to temp, the throttle response does seem slightly better. Enough to see at the track, no, but again, doesn't hurt. I would imagine that on a forced induction car, the drop on TB temp would probably be more important.
I was seriously considering this mod, but my biggest concern is cold temperatures messing with my throttle body. I live in Southern California, go figure. Anyhow, with such a SMALL gain in performance, this mod is not worth it to me, on top of worrying about colder temperatures. I'll pass on this one. You live in socal and are worried about cold temp's, that's funny. The cold temps that you need to be concerned with are sub zero temp's and I am pretty sure that you won't see that in socal any time soon. The throttle response is worth it, not so much the power. It's less than 10 bucks, can't tell me it's not worth trying.
Last edited by JL ws-6; Jul 12, 2004 at 08:41 AM.
Originally Posted by skunk50
also, wouldn't the heat from the TB transfer onto the intake if it's not an LS6 intake? so lowering the temp of the TB should help.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
From: Pensacola, FL
I am pretty sure he means one of the aluminum intakes...
Weiand and BBK for sure.
Everyone gripes about heat soak on the aluminum intakes, but say it makes no difference on the TB.
Why is phenolic plastic so touted for intakes and spacers ect if heat doesn't matter?
Food for thought.
Dave
Weiand and BBK for sure.
Everyone gripes about heat soak on the aluminum intakes, but say it makes no difference on the TB.
Why is phenolic plastic so touted for intakes and spacers ect if heat doesn't matter?
Food for thought.
Dave
Consider this,
1. The fueling is controlled by the MAF (Mass Air), which is ahead of the throttle body.
2. Combustion occurs at or near 1100 degrees F absolute.
If the throttle body could change the air temperature a few degrees it would be insignificant to the temperature of combustion and the fueling isn’t even influenced at all. The Mass of Air is independent after the sensor.
It now becomes inconceivable to imagine how the temperature of the throttle body would affect performance.
1. The fueling is controlled by the MAF (Mass Air), which is ahead of the throttle body.
2. Combustion occurs at or near 1100 degrees F absolute.
If the throttle body could change the air temperature a few degrees it would be insignificant to the temperature of combustion and the fueling isn’t even influenced at all. The Mass of Air is independent after the sensor.
It now becomes inconceivable to imagine how the temperature of the throttle body would affect performance.
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 430
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From: Pasadena, CA
Originally Posted by billc5
Consider this,
1. The fueling is controlled by the MAF (Mass Air), which is ahead of the throttle body.
2. Combustion occurs at or near 1100 degrees F absolute.
If the throttle body could change the air temperature a few degrees it would be insignificant to the temperature of combustion and the fueling isn’t even influenced at all. The Mass of Air is independent after the sensor.
It now becomes inconceivable to imagine how the temperature of the throttle body would affect performance.
1. The fueling is controlled by the MAF (Mass Air), which is ahead of the throttle body.
2. Combustion occurs at or near 1100 degrees F absolute.
If the throttle body could change the air temperature a few degrees it would be insignificant to the temperature of combustion and the fueling isn’t even influenced at all. The Mass of Air is independent after the sensor.
It now becomes inconceivable to imagine how the temperature of the throttle body would affect performance.
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Originally Posted by billc5
Consider this,
1. The fueling is controlled by the MAF (Mass Air), which is ahead of the throttle body.
2. Combustion occurs at or near 1100 degrees F absolute.
If the throttle body could change the air temperature a few degrees it would be insignificant to the temperature of combustion and the fueling isn’t even influenced at all. The Mass of Air is independent after the sensor.
It now becomes inconceivable to imagine how the temperature of the throttle body would affect performance.
1. The fueling is controlled by the MAF (Mass Air), which is ahead of the throttle body.
2. Combustion occurs at or near 1100 degrees F absolute.
If the throttle body could change the air temperature a few degrees it would be insignificant to the temperature of combustion and the fueling isn’t even influenced at all. The Mass of Air is independent after the sensor.
It now becomes inconceivable to imagine how the temperature of the throttle body would affect performance.
My intention is not to start anything more than discussion
************************************************** *****
Hmmm, I don't know if I'm understanding your post right but it kind of seems like, broken down, you've said that no matter what the air temp coming into the engine is, it doesn't matter because combustion has to occur at this temp. Soooooo...essentially what you're saying is that cooler, more dense air coming into the engine doesn't matter. Or is your statement strictly about anything after the MAF? Even still, the benefits of a cooler throttle body, though very small...even bordering on miniscule, definitely couldn't hurt anything. Like I said in an earlier post, it's definitely not a performance mod, more of an improved function mod. Definitely don't see it as inconceivable, but definitely insignifigant to make a true difference. Every little bit counts right?
At any rate, let us simpletons enjoy the thought that we've done something that matters. Ignorance is bliss. lolJustin
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia
My opinion is that if it's not needed why have it? we don't get freezing temps down here so I've disconnected it. It makes the plumbing on the engine neater with fewer connections to potentially go wrong.
I even took the next step of machining off the whole boss with it's inlet and outlet pipes. I machine ported my throttle body and it was only another 10 minutes work to zing the connections off.
Check it out, It looks much neater without them.
Cheers
Mike
I even took the next step of machining off the whole boss with it's inlet and outlet pipes. I machine ported my throttle body and it was only another 10 minutes work to zing the connections off.
Check it out, It looks much neater without them.
Cheers
Mike
The mass of air is measured as it passes the MAF sensor. This mass is controlling the reaction of fuel and Air within the combustion chamber. Temperature and pressure does not change the Mass after the sensor, (Mass is not created or destroyed unless you go nuclear).
Cooling the air ahead of the MAF will make a world of difference but do little or nothing after the MAF. Intercoolers are a detonation prevention device and draw power, not a power adder.
But I could be wrong.
Cooling the air ahead of the MAF will make a world of difference but do little or nothing after the MAF. Intercoolers are a detonation prevention device and draw power, not a power adder.
But I could be wrong.
Originally Posted by billc5
The mass of air is measured as it passes the MAF sensor. This mass is controlling the reaction of fuel and Air within the combustion chamber. Temperature and pressure does not change the Mass after the sensor, (Mass is not created or destroyed unless you go nuclear).
Cooling the air ahead of the MAF will make a world of difference but do little or nothing after the MAF. Intercoolers are a detonation prevention device and draw power, not a power adder.
But I could be wrong.
Cooling the air ahead of the MAF will make a world of difference but do little or nothing after the MAF. Intercoolers are a detonation prevention device and draw power, not a power adder.
But I could be wrong.
J/k
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by ddelallata
go here www.bmrfabrication.com they are one of our sponsors. I payed around $15 for the kit. Installation takes about 10 minutes or 12 minutes if you are completely mechanically inept.
I agree that the air density and flow are read at the MAF, and the computer calibrates the amount of fuel delivered to that reading, however, if the temp of the flow is increased after the measurment is taken, then the density is going to be different than what the computer thinks that it is. As for intercoolers using power, that is a good question. I'm not sure if they use any or not. It would make sense that the total air flow would be decreased on the case of an FI car, the intercooler has to me much more restrictive than a strait pipe. But, I think that the olny way that could accurately be tested would to hook one up on an N/A car and see what happens. That thought does make me wonder if anyone has ever tried it, and if so, what was the results?
Density is remaining constant as Pressure and Temperature increase together in the manifold. It does not mater if the engine is Naturally Aspirated, turbo'd, supercharged, punched or bored, the density or mass does not change as it goes through the engine. The power adder will respond to the increase in temperature/pressure and compensate with additional power.
But then again could be wrong.
But then again could be wrong.
Originally Posted by steve2001sh
Hey, don't laugh. It took me 20 minutes to get those #!&^ hoses unstuck. I probably would have gotten it done faster though if I hadn't spend so much time laughing about asking my buddy to help me yank on my hose.
formerly BlacKSS2oo2 (9-20-2012)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 135
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From: houston, tx
Heh, just went to Home Depot (local hardware store) and picked up a brass 1/4 o.d. fitting on both ends, real similiar to BMR tb kit. It cost me $1.40, lol. Bought 2 3/8 to 1/4 band clamps for .89 cents. Works perfectly fine Cost me 3.40 cents, or so. We shall see if it changes anything....
Cost me 3.40 cents, or so. We shall see if it changes anything.... 
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
From: fairfax, va
Originally Posted by Camaro SS 2002
Information like this is awesome. I was seriously considering this mod, but my biggest concern is cold temperatures messing with my throttle body. I live in Southern California, go figure.
I was seriously considering this mod, but my biggest concern is cold temperatures messing with my throttle body. I live in Southern California, go figure. TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
From: Pensacola, FL
I tell you one thing...
Our cars are SO much stronger in super cold weather.
I am a little O/T, but I did this mod in Minnesota and drove the car a few times in -0 weather when the roads were clean.
To feel a difference so drastic with the 'buttmeter', it is usually a big difference.
Who am I kidding? I'm way off topic.
Just a southern boy marveling over the affects of cold air on an LS1... but I think that before the mod, the air was getting heated some. I'm sure little mods will manifest themselves more noticably in extreme situations.
Done
Dave
Our cars are SO much stronger in super cold weather.
I am a little O/T, but I did this mod in Minnesota and drove the car a few times in -0 weather when the roads were clean.
To feel a difference so drastic with the 'buttmeter', it is usually a big difference.
Who am I kidding? I'm way off topic.
Just a southern boy marveling over the affects of cold air on an LS1... but I think that before the mod, the air was getting heated some. I'm sure little mods will manifest themselves more noticably in extreme situations.
Done
Dave