Any shorty header track results?
Originally Posted by BubaGumpShrimp
Ok guys im seeing this, he wants an 11.9sec pass to put a smile on his face and would like to do it cheaply. His 60' time looks pretty good and doubt traction is really an issue but nitto's might help you drop .10 in the 60' which would be roughly .2 in the 1/4. Port your throttle body to pick up a few hp, shim your thermostat and reprogram the cooling fans to come on sooner for a few hp,synthetic fluid in the motor and rear could pick up a few hp, taking the screen out of the maf has proven to be 2-3hp better without having tuning issues, play with the shift points could lower your times,less gas in the tank when racing,free ram air/fast toys ram air is worth a few since you have a z28. There are a bunch more that you can do to get thoes last few tenths your after.
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 281
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Originally Posted by nuzee
Emissions are not an issue in Hawaii. But I prefer a catted system for a street driven car. Again, it is just my preference, not a necessity.
I have had my share of header'd cars with carburetors before and I know full well the big improvements that can be had when properly tuned. Therein lies my BIG concern with longtube headers on an EFI car, the tune. The engine tune goes out of wack when longtubes are run because of the O2 sensors being placed farther downstream from the engine. So much so that whatever gains that you physically get, you lose a significant amount of it in the mis-tune. That makes longtubes a lousy investment for guys who cannot get it properly tuned. Again, let me repeat myself, lousy investment for GUYS WHO CANNOT GET IT PROPERLY TUNED. You guys in the 48 states have way more tuning resources available than me way out in the middle of the pacific. I don't have the time, patience, or money to figure out a way to get it properly tuned within the timeframe I have to work with. Our local track is closing early next year. I go to the track about once every 2 months. So I only have a handful of track nights left to get into the 11s. I can't be getting frustrated with tuning at this stage of the game.
I think I run a decent 1/4 mile for the mods that I have. I also think that a big reason for it running good is that I didn't screw with the parts that have engine management sensors like the MAF & exhaust manifold. I intentionally selected mods that I didn't think needed engine tuning corrections. That leads me to my contemplation of shorty headers. Because the O2 sensor locations on the shorties don't change, I feel that an engine tuning correction should not be needed.
I think that I am near the limits of the stock exhaust manifold going by my trap speeds. If the shorties breath a little better and give me another mph or 2 then it would be enough to satisfy me. If the shorties breath the same as the stock manifold then I would say sh*t, at least I got a (15-20 lb?)weight reduction and just live with it. If the shorties breath worst than the stock manifolds, then I'm a fool for buying it and not researching. That is the reason for this thread!
If I can buy a set of shorties for $150-$200 and get 1 mph, then it would be in line pricewise with my other mods like the ram air & pulley. Not the best bangs for the buck, but not that bad.
Since I am creating such a long post, let me put down some further thoughts. From reading other peoples experience with 1 5/8 shorties, I think the small primaries were intentional to help exhaust velocity at lower rpms but at the expense of upper rpm breathing. That's great for street driveability, but not so good for strip performance. If I still had my stock torque coverter and didn't go to the track, I might have gone that route.
However, I am looking to boost the 4500-6000+ range. In my opinion, the 1 5/8s aren't going to cut it. The 1 3/4s look promising. IIRC the gains from adequately sized shorties are in the upper rpm range and occur in a narrower powerband than longtubes. But the cost for new 1 3/4s is high. So, unless I find a used set, I don't think shorties are in my future.
I have had my share of header'd cars with carburetors before and I know full well the big improvements that can be had when properly tuned. Therein lies my BIG concern with longtube headers on an EFI car, the tune. The engine tune goes out of wack when longtubes are run because of the O2 sensors being placed farther downstream from the engine. So much so that whatever gains that you physically get, you lose a significant amount of it in the mis-tune. That makes longtubes a lousy investment for guys who cannot get it properly tuned. Again, let me repeat myself, lousy investment for GUYS WHO CANNOT GET IT PROPERLY TUNED. You guys in the 48 states have way more tuning resources available than me way out in the middle of the pacific. I don't have the time, patience, or money to figure out a way to get it properly tuned within the timeframe I have to work with. Our local track is closing early next year. I go to the track about once every 2 months. So I only have a handful of track nights left to get into the 11s. I can't be getting frustrated with tuning at this stage of the game.
I think I run a decent 1/4 mile for the mods that I have. I also think that a big reason for it running good is that I didn't screw with the parts that have engine management sensors like the MAF & exhaust manifold. I intentionally selected mods that I didn't think needed engine tuning corrections. That leads me to my contemplation of shorty headers. Because the O2 sensor locations on the shorties don't change, I feel that an engine tuning correction should not be needed.
I think that I am near the limits of the stock exhaust manifold going by my trap speeds. If the shorties breath a little better and give me another mph or 2 then it would be enough to satisfy me. If the shorties breath the same as the stock manifold then I would say sh*t, at least I got a (15-20 lb?)weight reduction and just live with it. If the shorties breath worst than the stock manifolds, then I'm a fool for buying it and not researching. That is the reason for this thread!
If I can buy a set of shorties for $150-$200 and get 1 mph, then it would be in line pricewise with my other mods like the ram air & pulley. Not the best bangs for the buck, but not that bad.
Since I am creating such a long post, let me put down some further thoughts. From reading other peoples experience with 1 5/8 shorties, I think the small primaries were intentional to help exhaust velocity at lower rpms but at the expense of upper rpm breathing. That's great for street driveability, but not so good for strip performance. If I still had my stock torque coverter and didn't go to the track, I might have gone that route.
However, I am looking to boost the 4500-6000+ range. In my opinion, the 1 5/8s aren't going to cut it. The 1 3/4s look promising. IIRC the gains from adequately sized shorties are in the upper rpm range and occur in a narrower powerband than longtubes. But the cost for new 1 3/4s is high. So, unless I find a used set, I don't think shorties are in my future.
I think you're going in the right direction thinking about weight redution. A tubular K member and a lightweight battery should help out quite a bit. Your car already leaves pretty good, I would work on weight reduction and making the car leave harder with the HP it already makes. I would even consider an EWP before shorties - despite the higher cost.
The statement you made about not messing with the MAF and exhuast is a great point. When I first got my car 2 years ago I put an OR-Y on my car, MAF ends, MAFT, etc. And was making a great amount of MPH for the mods, but running with or getting held off by cars with similar mods, yet no MAF or exhuast mods like my car at the time. I sincerely feel it was in the lack of tune at the time. Since a tune and supporting mods - my car runs and hides from all of the cars that used to be able to "hang." A prime example is a friend of mine's car on the board - Villan281. Derrick's car is running 12's w/ a lid, muffler, and some other small BS. My car with more mods was making similar MPH, but ET'd about .2 - .3 slower. You live and you learn.
The statement you made about not messing with the MAF and exhuast is a great point. When I first got my car 2 years ago I put an OR-Y on my car, MAF ends, MAFT, etc. And was making a great amount of MPH for the mods, but running with or getting held off by cars with similar mods, yet no MAF or exhuast mods like my car at the time. I sincerely feel it was in the lack of tune at the time. Since a tune and supporting mods - my car runs and hides from all of the cars that used to be able to "hang." A prime example is a friend of mine's car on the board - Villan281. Derrick's car is running 12's w/ a lid, muffler, and some other small BS. My car with more mods was making similar MPH, but ET'd about .2 - .3 slower. You live and you learn.
One of the biggest mistakes I ever made concerning mods was spending $600 for JBA headers. I gained 0, nothing ,nil. My tuner warned me in advance but I wouldn't listen. The only saving grace was that they looked nice. I also put on a Borla y pipe, total waste of money. When I removed the cats I picked up almost 15 rwhp. Also had a good gain with the Hooker cat back. It's still working great after almost 5 years.
Originally Posted by nuzee
I'm looking for some weight reduction mods. I don't want this thread to turn into a shorty bashing. I'm aware of the performance gains of longer tube headers. I just want to make sure that the shorties performed at least as well as stock manifolds. The search archives do not contain much information of shorty header track results.
Please post up before and after track results going from stock manifolds to shorties. Thank you very much.
Please post up before and after track results going from stock manifolds to shorties. Thank you very much.
Been there done that , waste of time and money,
maybe a .001 MPH increase
QUOTE: Redneck it's a 2000, I have heard arguements over the years that the OEM exhaust manifolds on the 2000 are pretty efficient and thats why shorties show no gain.
Me too, thats why I probably wouldn't run them unless I had a 98' or 99'.
Me too, thats why I probably wouldn't run them unless I had a 98' or 99'.
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I've never had any performance issues with my mid-length Macs (not sure if you would consider these "shortys") Well worth the price diff of LT's. IMO...
10.50's @ 130+mph full weight (3700lbs race weight) 6spd... street car!
High 9sec car with TNT wet kit but kept braking ****...(tranny output shaft, torque arm)
10.50's @ 130+mph full weight (3700lbs race weight) 6spd... street car!
High 9sec car with TNT wet kit but kept braking ****...(tranny output shaft, torque arm)
theres some misinformation going on about LT vs shorties however...
LT headers are designed to enhance low end and midrange torque due to better scavenging, however above a certain RPM the scavenging effect disappears. Shorty's are designed for high RPM use, which is why people tend to not notice a huge difference with them: we aren't spinning enough to take full advantage of them. Really for a street car LT's are better, but even shorties are a bit better than the stock manifolds (although with people pulling almost 400rwhp with stock manifolds I'm not sure I would bother, but mines an 02 with the better manifolds).
LT headers are designed to enhance low end and midrange torque due to better scavenging, however above a certain RPM the scavenging effect disappears. Shorty's are designed for high RPM use, which is why people tend to not notice a huge difference with them: we aren't spinning enough to take full advantage of them. Really for a street car LT's are better, but even shorties are a bit better than the stock manifolds (although with people pulling almost 400rwhp with stock manifolds I'm not sure I would bother, but mines an 02 with the better manifolds).
I am sure I make more power over my 00 manifolds on a H/C setup. I don't think I could make 415 through the manifolds for that matter. No one has ever done it so that should be a fact. **** I have never heard of 415 ever through shorties. I am doing it though. 
Originally Posted by 52172
I am sure I make more power over my 00 manifolds on a H/C setup. I don't think I could make 415 through the manifolds for that matter. No one has ever done it so that should be a fact. **** I have never heard of 415 ever through shorties. I am doing it though.
