Just Got SES checked out
Just Got SES checked out I just got back from the dealer where they checked out my SES light. The code that came up they say, indicates that the car is running to lean. They say it could be from a clogged fuel filter or a bad fuel pump. Why do i have a feeling that this is related to porting the MAF and not because of any of the above theories stated by the dealer. When i did this mod there was nothing in the article about the SES light coming on. Is this a situation where i just need to wait for the computer to learn some new ratios? Why am i begining to regret even messing with the damn thing in the first place.
TECH Regular
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 493
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From: Nawf Carolina
Re: Just Got SES checked out You ported the MAF?? You didn't just do MAF ends?? I did MAF ends on my '98 and I didn't get any ses lights. I did on the other hand have to change my fuel filter one time because it set off a SES.
Re: Just Got SES checked out Time to buy a new MAF - shoulda just bought the ported ends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I'd do it quickly as possible, if you're running lean enough to set a code it does not take long for severe engine damage due to leaning out. The detonation is going to take its toll.
Dope
I'd do it quickly as possible, if you're running lean enough to set a code it does not take long for severe engine damage due to leaning out. The detonation is going to take its toll.
Dope
Re: Just Got SES checked out </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ZeeQuick:
<strong>It said in the article to port the MAF as well as the ends. As long as you don't hit the sensors they said it should be fine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You should only be porting the MAF ends and leaving the electronics (black plastic piece) alone! It sounds like you maxed out your LTrims. The PCM has a max adjustment of 25% either way for a rich or lean condition. If the LTrims are positive, that means that the car is having to ADD fuel (i.e. it's lean). If the LTrims reach 25%, then the PCM can no longer adjust for the lean condition. That's when it pops the SES light on. Just get another set of stock ends, and you'll be fine. Post up in the classifieds section that you are looking for a set of stock, unported MAF ends. I bet somebody has a set for sale.
<strong>It said in the article to port the MAF as well as the ends. As long as you don't hit the sensors they said it should be fine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You should only be porting the MAF ends and leaving the electronics (black plastic piece) alone! It sounds like you maxed out your LTrims. The PCM has a max adjustment of 25% either way for a rich or lean condition. If the LTrims are positive, that means that the car is having to ADD fuel (i.e. it's lean). If the LTrims reach 25%, then the PCM can no longer adjust for the lean condition. That's when it pops the SES light on. Just get another set of stock ends, and you'll be fine. Post up in the classifieds section that you are looking for a set of stock, unported MAF ends. I bet somebody has a set for sale.
__________________
Re: Just Got SES checked out All four of the guys who did the mod on installuniversity.com ported the sensor itself as well as the ends. So you guys are telling me that i now need to go out and get a whole new MAF sensor. Hell i should charge the cost to the guys in the article who said it should be fine to port the sensor
Re: Just Got SES checked out So which one is it??? Do i need a new MAF??? Do i just need to get new MAF ends??? Will my engine blow up if i keep driving it like this??? This car is my daily driver so i do need it to last. I looked at some of the aftermarket MAFs and none of them have that little plastic piece on them that i cut out of my stock one. Why was it such a big mistake for me to cut it out if none of the aftermarket MAFs have it in the first place?
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Re: Just Got SES checked out What if i put the MAF screen back in??? Will that keep the car from running to lean at least to the point where i can drive it without having to worry about major engine damage???
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Re: Just Got SES checked out ZeeQuick, if you think logically about what just happened it'll make sense that the MAF porting is the likely culprit. You probablay removed too much material, which is giving the PCM a highly inaccurate airflow reading. It's trying to compensate (basically the O2 sensors aren't matching what the MAF is telling it and its trying to adjust), but it's beyond the 25% range for which it can compensate. Aftermarket MAF ends are ported a fixed and relatively conservative amount and will not cause the problems you're describing. IMO you'll probably need to buy a new MAF sensor (not just the ends if you've also messed with the black plastic piece).
The car's not going to "blow up", but it will probably not run right as is. You should be able to get a new MAF from gmpartsdirect.com or one of the GM parts sponsors for a reasonable price.
If you have access to an AutoTap you can confirm your situation. This is really an invaluable tool that you should have before doing mods like this.
As a temporary band aid you can likely get away with a set of stock, unported ends or a MAFT (to richen the base setting) which you can probably pick up cheap in the classifieds until you can get a new MAF. Either of these might be enough to put the MAF signal back into a range for which the PCM can compensate. This is only a temporary solution though since you may still be getting too much timing. Again, just shooting from the hip without AutoTap.
<small>[ June 21, 2002, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Fulton 1 ]</small>
The car's not going to "blow up", but it will probably not run right as is. You should be able to get a new MAF from gmpartsdirect.com or one of the GM parts sponsors for a reasonable price.
If you have access to an AutoTap you can confirm your situation. This is really an invaluable tool that you should have before doing mods like this.
As a temporary band aid you can likely get away with a set of stock, unported ends or a MAFT (to richen the base setting) which you can probably pick up cheap in the classifieds until you can get a new MAF. Either of these might be enough to put the MAF signal back into a range for which the PCM can compensate. This is only a temporary solution though since you may still be getting too much timing. Again, just shooting from the hip without AutoTap.
<small>[ June 21, 2002, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Fulton 1 ]</small>
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
From: Tucson, AZ
Re: Just Got SES checked out I'm sure you read the disclaimers you just don't remember them. People do these sorts of things on an experimental basis. What works for one LS1 might not work for another, it's really hard to say. I've read the article you saw and it does say to port the plastic piece too, but sometimes you gotta use your better judgement. I would not have touched that plastic. In fact, I'm running ends right now becuase I wanted to have an out just in case the car didn't like them.
The reason aftermarket MAF's get away with not having those pieces is you're dealing with a completely different set of electronics that were calibrated for that kind of airflow without restriction. Your stock sensor is calibrated with a stock flow in mind. Porting it out to a certain extent is a good thing, too much is a bad thing.
I'm sure you can find a set of stock MAF ends or even a complete MAF in the classifieds section of this site. If you want, try putting the screen back in until you can get ahold of some new parts. It might help a little...
The reason aftermarket MAF's get away with not having those pieces is you're dealing with a completely different set of electronics that were calibrated for that kind of airflow without restriction. Your stock sensor is calibrated with a stock flow in mind. Porting it out to a certain extent is a good thing, too much is a bad thing.
I'm sure you can find a set of stock MAF ends or even a complete MAF in the classifieds section of this site. If you want, try putting the screen back in until you can get ahold of some new parts. It might help a little...
Re: Just Got SES checked out OK. I disconnected the negative battery cable and let the car sit for a few hours. Put the MAF screen back in. Started the car up and the light went out. Car runs crappy at first but i think that is to be expected. Drove aroud for a while and now it runs fine except for a bit of hesitation right at 2400rpm in any gear, maybe it is still relearning a few things. Anyways i don't expect the light to stay out but we'll see what happens. I don't think i have to worry about any engine damage or detenation cause i don't hear any pinging. Some guy from the board has a proautotech ported and recalibrated MAF he said he will sell for 80 bucks, do you guys think that would that solve some of my problems?
Re: Just Got SES checked out I see a stock MAF for 80 bucks. I e-mailed the guy and waiting for a reply. I also found a Grantinelli one for 250. Will either one of those work with the ported ends?? Am i better off breaking down and getting the grantinelli??
Re: Just Got SES checked out I wouldn't be putting that screen back on after it's been removed. The risk of having it vibrate loose and getting sucked into the intake...
Dope
Dope
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
From: Windham, NH
Re: Just Got SES checked out I ported mine and it ran too lean also.
I put a Want to buy add in the Classified and asked if anyone wanted to sell a Stock Maf shipped to me for 50 bucks. I had 5 emails in 1 day.
Just an FYI.
I put a Want to buy add in the Classified and asked if anyone wanted to sell a Stock Maf shipped to me for 50 bucks. I had 5 emails in 1 day.
Just an FYI.
Re: Just Got SES checked out I'd avoid the Granatelli MAF myself - its a waste of money IMO. With your mods the stock MAF will serve you just fine. Down the road you can always add aftermarket ported ends to increase your flow capability if need be.
Re: Just Got SES checked out You can bolt your ported ends onto the stock MAF electronics, but how well it'll work is anybody's guess. The reason I like aftermarket ported ends is that there isn't as much guesswork involved plus if they don't work for you, you haven't screwed up your stock piece.
Again, IMO you should buy yourself a complete stock MAF (i.e. black plastic piece/electronics and the ends w/screen) and use that instead. I would not screw with the MAF at all unless you have access to AutoTap to see what your changes are.
Again, IMO you should buy yourself a complete stock MAF (i.e. black plastic piece/electronics and the ends w/screen) and use that instead. I would not screw with the MAF at all unless you have access to AutoTap to see what your changes are.
Re: Just Got SES checked out Will the stock MAF accept the ported ends i have in right now or will i need to get some stock unported ones to completely solve my problem?
