WS-6 BILL

HOW MANY MILES CAN I GO WITH MOBIL 1 AND A MOBILE 1 OIL FILTER? CALLED MOBILE 1 THEY SAY 7,500 MILES OR SIX MONTHS WHICH IS THE GM MAX.AMASOIL CLAIMS 18,OOO MILES!MANY SAY 3,000 MILES BUT WHAT'S THE POINT OF SUCH EXPENSIVE OIL IF YOUR GOING TO DRAIN IT AS THE SAME TIME AS DINO? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

I run Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 filter and go 5,000 miles (usually about 3-1/2 months). I figure that is a good middle ground between dino, Amsoil and factory specs.

Patman

I agree with what you said, synthetic oil will last longer than dino, so why spend more for synthetic if you're just going to drain it sooner. At the very minimum, you should at least leave it in for 5k. In reality, 10k is no problem, a lot of people do more. The best way to determine how long you can go with your particular car and driving patterns, is to have an oil analysis done. This will pinpoint exactly how far you can go on the oil before it's finished. You check the oxidation percentage, TBN and viscosity and can determine if the oil's life is over.

Amsoil is a good oil but their blanket 25k interval for all cars doesn't always apply. A car whose engine has more blowby can't go 25k, as too much fuel gets past the rings into the oil. Also, some air filters may allow too much dirt into the oil, and the silicon levels get too high. I know one person who found he can't go more than 12k on Amsoil, as his area is dusty so no matter what he does he ends up with more silicon (dirt) in his oil than he's comfortable with, even though the oil itself is still doing ok.

I'll tell you guys one thing, the 3k oil change is something the oil industry wants you to hang onto, but truth be told, any oil can go 5k. The new SL standards have raised the quality of oil quite a bit, and conventional oils are getting a lot more like synthetics. The base oils on the lowest cost oils (group 2+) are all now partially hydrocracked, so in essense they are almost as "synthetic" as Castrol Syntec, Valvoline Synpower, etc. Group 3 base oils (which Syntec, etc uses) are simply rearranged petroleum molecules, group 2+ is the same, just with less hydrocracking time.

I've spent a lot of time researching oil lately, and one of the places where I found a TON of info is here:

www.bobistheoilguy.com

Everything you want to know about oil is there.

DaddySS

My concern is not only how well the oil is holding up, but how many particles (dirt, metal, etc.) are in it. Now I reallize the filter should be cleaning the oil but still, when the oil starts turning black, I get concerned! I run the synthetic for the improved lubrication qualities, not the fact that it will last longer.

So I change the oil about every 3k, to me it's worth it. Over the course of 150,000 miles, it means I will change the oil an additional 20 times over someone who changes the oil every 5k.

If you decide to change it every 5k or even every 7,500 you'll be fine, but I personally wouldn't wait more than that.

just MHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Patman

Don't let oil color turn you off, as it means nothing in terms of an oil's performance. And as far as particles in the oil, well, if you have a good oil filter, a good air filter and a good oil to begin with, you won't have a lot of stuff floating around in your oil at the 3k mark.

I've said it here before and it bears repeating. Oils and engines have come a long way in the last little while, so why stick to the old school 3k/3mo. way of thinking? I know a lot of you are not comfortable running long oil change intervals, but not a single person yet has shown me oil analysis data on their car showing that the 3k interval is the right one for them. Anyone who does regular oil analysis will tell you that 3k intervals are much lower than necessary.

Predator

Patman, I'm not so concerned about mileage, but rather "time." For example, I've only put about a 1000 miles on my car since my last oil change which was last November. So it's been about eight months, but only 1000 miles. Should I have changed my oil a few months ago even though it would have been less than a thousand miles of usage? What negative effect does time have on oil?

ND4SPD

Does anyone actually wait for the factory oil life indicator light to come on????

01Z0H6

iTrader: (63)

I use Mobil 1 oil/filter & run anywhere from 3500-5000 miles. My car is a daily driver & i usually change my oil Q 2-2 1/2 months. I avg 160 miles per day. My car rests on the weekends! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Currently have 60K on my car. Bought it new, still runs like new. Would'nt use anything else.

Patman

Time honestly does not hurt the oil all that much. If you have a car that you only drive on weekends, and always warm it up good when you drive it, you can go a year or more between changes and you'll be fine. It's the people that only drive 3 miles a day that need to worry if they've gone 8 months between oil changes. Those people run into problems with the excess moisture not being burned off, so the oil degrades at a lower mileage. I have a friend with a supercharged Mustang who hasn't changed his oil since Sept 99, but he has only done about 1000 miles or so. He always drives a good distance when he does drive the car, but sometimes he goes a few weeks in between drives. When he finally gets around to draining that oil he's gonna have it analyzed. I'm confident the results will be fine.

Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PewterY2KZ28:
<strong>I use Mobil 1 oil/filter & run anywhere from 3500-5000 miles. My car is a daily driver & i usually change my oil Q 2-2 1/2 months. I avg 160 miles per day. My car rests on the weekends! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Currently have 60K on my car. Bought it new, still runs like new. Would'nt use anything else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Based on what you tell me, I think you could easily double your oil change intervals. Highway driving is very easy on the oil. I saw an oil analysis on a car that had gone on a long highway trip and did 3000 miles in just a week or two. That analysis showed almost no engine wear at all! And the oil was in almost new condition too, very low oxidation, viscosity still good and TBN very high still.

Predator

Thanks Patman.

So why do oil manufacturers recommend, for example, "3 months or 3k miles, whichever comes first"? Is it JUST to sell more oil?

Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Predator:
<strong>Thanks Patman.

So why do oil manufacturers recommend, for example, "3 months or 3k miles, whichever comes first"? Is it JUST to sell more oil?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes! I saw an internal document from Jiffy Lube which told it's people to continue pushing the 3k oil changes and it specifically mentioned profits as the motivation. Oil change places and oil companies don't want you to stop doing 3k/3mo because it's a HUGE cash cow for them.

Here is a great article on why the 3k interval is a thing of the past:

http://www.motoroilbible.com/pre-one.html

The only beef I have with the article though, is that it makes claims about dino oil that aren't quite true anymore, as they are vastly improved since this was written.

Predator

Thanks Patman.

Interesting article, but it seems difficult to get a straight answer about the effects of TIME on motor oil. The author says: "In my opinion, Mobil 1 oils are good for 10,000 to 15,000 miles or SIX MONTHS,. . . ."

Again, why SIX MONTHS? What happens to oil over time, independent of mileage? Does oil have/or should have expiration dates like milk or eggs? Is motor oil degrading while it sits on the shelf? Or does it only degrade over time in an engine where mileage is being put on it?

I haven't changed my oil (Mobil 1) since November 1st 2001, but I've put less than 1000 miles on it since then. Should I change my oil?

Predator

Oh, and if I should change my oil--WHY??

Patman

Oil in the bottle has a shelf life of about 4-5 years.

Honestly, the 6 month rule they are stating is probably just more to cover those people that drive their cars every single day. If you drive it once or twice a week, theoretically you can change that six month interval to a year or two or more. I honestly don't think that time hurts a motor oil, so long as you aren't shutting off the engine before the moisture is burned out of the oil. For example, say you only drive 3 miles, then shut off the engine and don't drive the car for a week. That excess moisture in the oil will now start attacking the metals in the engine. However, if you had driven the car a long time, there is almost no moisture at all, so when that oil is sitting in there, it's doing no harm. With such low mileage there will be very little contaminents in there, barely any fuel, barely any wear metals, and hardly any silicon (dirt)

So in a nutshell, that oil is not being degraded just by sitting there, and so long as you're always driving it long distances when you do drive it, you're doing the engine no harm.

I do recommend doing an oil analysis when you are ready to change the oil though, just to reassure yourself that what you did was just fine. You also might want to ask any questions you have over at Bob's oil board:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

That way you can get more viewpoints that will confirm what I'm saying. I've learned a lot from the guys on there!!

Predator

Excellent Mr. Patman, I appreciate your patience with me; and also, you've given me some peace-of-mind (I had been worrying that "time" was just as crucial as mileage). They certainly make it sound that way.

Again, thanks so much.

Racehead

Oil DOES degrade with time. Even if you never start your car the oil will degrade. Oils have many additives and some of those additives disapate just from sitting there. So actually I guess the oil itself doesn't degrade, but the additives slowly disapate over time. Add this to the fact that acids slowly leach off of the internal engine components into the oil and you have a degrading of the oil over time.

I change my Mobil 1 every 3000 miles. I know that I could go much, much longer, but even at $30 per change ( I change my own ) why would I ? We know that oil contamination is a cumulative thing, so when I change my oil it has only 1/2 of the abrasive wear particles in it than it would if I changed it at 6000 miles. For the $30, I'll go with the cleaner stuff. Alot of people spend alot of time wondering whether they should change their oil sooner, or should they be going longer, or maybe their current oil change interval is right on now. I KNOW that my oil is always fresh. The additives are always up to spec, and there's never much particulate contamination. I don't even have to think about it, and that's how I like it. To each his own I guess ?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Racehead:
<strong>Oil DOES degrade with time. Even if you never start your car the oil will degrade. Oils have many additives and some of those additives disapate just from sitting there. So actually I guess the oil itself doesn't degrade, but the additives slowly disapate over time.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but it'll take 4-5 years of sitting there before the oil's shelf life is over. See this link:

http://www.rotella.com/answerresult.php3?rowid=48

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

I think the more important question is; when is the oil level too low?
What if you check your oil level and it reads in the middle of the x's on the dip stick, like this:
xxxxxxxx<-----Operating range
In reality, your oil is 1/2 quart to a quart low but according to the dip stick, you are still within operating range. So, when is the oil level too low for our type of driving?

Derrick

Patman

I would keep the oil level right up to the very top of the operating range on the stick, maybe even a 1/4 to a 1/2 quart higher even. As mentioned in the other thread on internal engine, the LS1 can safely hold 7 quarts of oil, autocrossers have been doing this for years to prevent oil starvation.