M3EATER

Hey guys, I've been busy and haven't been watching the forums, I see that I've unintentionally started a stir.

I had no intentions of creating a stir with offering my headers on ebay. I wasn't trying to lowball the others selling similar units, I just wanted to get a couple sets out there so people could start seeing what they were.

Yes, they were being offered at NO profit, in fact a bit less than that. These things are expensive , even for us to buy directly from the manufacturer. But, you do get what you paid for.

Guess I should have just asked if anyone wanted a couple sets of headers....!

Anyway, I hope that the storm has quieted & I do truely apologize for the commotion!

I have been budgeting to be a sponsor here & in fact have just started setting up with Tony.

By the way...... that Y-pipe is likely the highest quality pipe you'll ever see. It was made by hand by the header manufacturer, on my car, when were doing the prototyping on the emissions fitments for the headers.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Gordon Arnold
www.provenperformanceconcepts.com

<img src="http://www.provenperformanceconcepts.com/PPC%20BANNER%20468x60.jpg" alt=" - " />

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Nice looking headers.

I have no idea what the ebay thing is about and couldn't careless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

The headers are pretty and so is the Y pipe. Sort of looks like a Grot with longer collectors. Have any dyno results you can share?

My Mufflex Y pipe for my Hookers looks like a Frankstein pipe compared to the PPC Y.

Are you going to offer GP's on these headers etc?

slick98ta

So could i get a set of just the headers with no EGR/AIR fittings for under $550 coated?
If so i'll make the call tomorrow <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

Damian

iTrader: (89)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by slick98ta:
<strong>So could i get a set of just the headers with no EGR/AIR fittings for under $550 coated?
If so i'll make the call tomorrow <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where do you see that? If that is the correct price, I will order ASAP. Somebody let me know...

Josh

mobius

that was the price on ebay till it got raised. if you are offering them at that price again i will take a set. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

ratio411

I don't know for sure, but the word is that they are produced by Tubular Automotive, (617) 878-9875, in Rockland Mass.
If so, I can say a couple things from owning a few sets of their headers:
1) They make good stuff.
2) The stuff is good, but no better than any other manufacturer.
3) Combining points 1&2, and having owned other brands of headers, I conclude that Hookers are the better buy.
What they want for these is just highway robbery. If the price was in the Hooker range, then they are cool because the quality will be the same.
This all of course assumes that Tubular produces them. It all comes from experience with Tubular, Hooker, and various other header brands.
Just a heads up for those of you that might be considering.
Dave

M3EATER

Just to make this perfectly clear....

I was offering one of each style header that I offer... on eBay, at WELL BELOW my cost (the $550 thing). The intent was to just sell one of each so that people would see what they are and to start talking...

(well.... they're talking....not what I had in mind, though)

I have already arranged for a couple of "test" sets to be installed & that previous offer is no longer valid.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

Gordon Arnold
www.provenperformanceconcepts.com
<img src="http://www.provenperformanceconcepts.com/PPC%20BANNER%20468x60.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.provenperformanceconcepts.com/Headers111002%20001aMED-logo.jpg" alt=" - " />

<small>[ December 22, 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: M3EATER ]</small>

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Question:

Where are the front O2 bungs located? Looking at the picture in your sig, I see O2 bungs appear to be located behind the collectors in the primaries for the Y pipe. Is the bung showing only for the rear O2's?

My Hookers headers & Y pipe cost $580 + $20 new gaskets + $35 for quality bolts + $285 for Mufflex Frankstein pipe + $35 for a 4inch to 3 inch reducer. Random 3 inch cats are going to cost ~$350. I will have over $1300 in my Hooker/Mufflex set up by the time I'm done. My Mufflex Y isn't coated. A coated Y pipe would have add at least another $100 to my cost. Addin the cost of getting the Hooker rewelded and fixing my problem with the Mufflex Y and that's over $1500 by the time my exhaust is finished.

My point being LT set ups aren't cheap and putting a few things in prospective.

While the list price is high maybe PPC will offer a GP to help out.

ratio411

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>Question:

Where are the front O2 bungs located? Looking at the picture in your sig, I see O2 bungs appear to be located behind the collectors in the primaries for the Y pipe. Is the bung showing only for the rear O2's?

My Hookers headers & Y pipe cost $580 + $20 new gaskets + $35 for quality bolts + $285 for Mufflex Frankstein pipe + $35 for a 4inch to 3 inch reducer. Random 3 inch cats are going to cost ~$350. I will have over $1300 in my Hooker/Mufflex set up by the time I'm done. My Mufflex Y isn't coated. A coated Y pipe would have add at least another $100 to my cost. Addin the cost of getting the Hooker rewelded and fixing my problem with the Mufflex Y and that's over $1500 by the time my exhaust is finished.

My point being LT set ups aren't cheap and putting a few things in prospective.

While the list price is high maybe PPC will offer a GP to help out.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You act as though these things come with everything you bought! They don't even have the cats!
Hookers win. Plus it was your fault you paid $130 more by getting a Mufflex Y instead of the Hooker.
Dave

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ratio411:
You act as though these things come with everything you bought! They don't even have the cats!
Hookers win. Plus it was your fault you paid $130 more by getting a Mufflex Y instead of the Hooker.
Dave</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dave,

Before you get pi$$y maybe you need to get your facts straight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Check the website. about 1/2 way down PPC lists the cats as being included with the set up I was talking about.

http://www.provenperformanceconcepts.com/products.htm

Now for the next part:

MY SET OF <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" /> HOOKERS SUCK

1/4 inch weld was missed on one of the primaries and it leaked big time
O2 bung was so badly misaligned the O2 would not screw in.
The flange was not flat and had to be cleaned up
Several of the primaries were full of slag.

How with all the problems fixed the Hooker make good hp but quailty wise the set I got sucked. Knowing what I know now, I'd give PPC a shot.

As for the Mufflex Y <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> vs Hooker Y. The Mufflex is easier to fit the cats on than the Hooker Y from all I've seen and read. That was why I went Mufflex as Mufflex designed their Y to be able to fit 3 inch cats. Hooker didn't design their Y that way. So for my purposes I really didn't have the choice of using the Hooker Y, not that I'd want to after the sorry quality control on their headers.

Dave, if you like Hookers that's what you want, hey it's your car go for it. If you don't have Hookers and want a similar header thats better check out the new Jet Hot's as they cost less than the Hookers and have better design features.

With that said, I think we should give PPC and any other sponsor a fair chance and let the products and results <img border="0" alt="[Driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" /> speak for themselves.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

<small>[ December 23, 2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>

slick98ta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by M3EATER:
<strong>Just to make this perfectly clear....

I was offering one of each style header that I offer... on eBay, at WELL BELOW my cost (the $550 thing). The intent was to just sell one of each so that people would see what they are and to start talking...

(well.... they're talking....not what I had in mind, though)

I have already arranged for a couple of "test" sets to be installed & that previous offer is no longer valid.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

Gordon Arnold
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So looking at your site,there's an offer of 15% til the end of the year with a purchase over $500 correct?
So if the non-emissions(no egr/air tubes) headers are $719.95 with 15% off bringing it to $611.96.
What would shipping charges be to area code 63366?

Just wanting to make sure I got this right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Thanks
Mark

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

No offence here Gordon, but I believe the real story is that you were charging just a hair over cost and you got hit by the other sponcers here and they were also probably calling the manufacture of the headers about the low price that you had. That shows how much people are being ripped off for a header. Plain and simple. Trust me, Im also in the business field. If people knew how much mark up there was on something, noone would buy it, especially if there was $200+ markup for no reason other than "because I can" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

<small>[ December 23, 2002, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Country Boy ]</small>

niphilli

Average retail markup (all products in general) is 100%. With **** like Nike it is more like 1000 %. Pretty sad but most big companies have a lot of overhead.

M3EATER

Answers to some of the above questions....

The front O2 sensor bungs are in the header collectors (on the inside... so you can't see them in the pics).

The bungs in the Y-pipe don't need to be there, the pipe shown is the handmade prototype (made by the header manufacturer, while we were doing the emissions modifications to the headers) and the guys just put the bungs in there. On a Cat Y-pipe, there would be bungs after the cats (you could still use O2 sims though, instead of the rear sensors).

As for profit margins, I guarantee you all, that those of us selling these units & the associated hardware .. only DREAM of the kinds of margins that some of you are suggesting!

You may not know this, but these headers are 100% HAND MADE ... one by one ! That's why the quality is so high ... AND the price.

We're paying for initial prototyping & jigging, packaging, shipping to the coater, coating, shipping FROM the coater, the parts themselves ... oh ... and... well shoot..kinda like to make a living too, after all that.

There is no way that I or anyone else could make a business profitable by selling ONLY these headers.

YES CARL...
I was selling 1 of each set at BELOW cost (eventhough I told you I had a tiny profit ... just didn't want to say that they were below cost)The manufacturer & my fellow resellers DID contact me...... Just for this reason....Now everybody thinks we're into them for a couple hundred bucks or something.

As I mentioned before.....I should have just asked if someone wanted a test/promotional set. MY MISTAKE !!

I can assure you that 10 complete systems... pretty much destroys a $10,000 bill !

If anyone is making 50% margin on any parts.... IT'S NOT ON THESE HEADERS !!!!

Thanks for the ranting space...(can we put this to rest, soon?)

Gordon Arnold
www.provenperformanceconcepts.com

<img src="http://www.provenperformanceconcepts.com/PPC%20BANNER%20468x60.jpg" alt=" - " />