Fenris, GaryZ etc. further header discussion
Re: Fenris, GaryZ etc. further header discussion Fenris, were you aware that you were "trolling" Barry's thread? Weird. It looked to me like you were just asking a question about a possible design change. I'd say the worst you're guilty of is "hijacking," not "trolling." And even then, the others that continued the discussion share an equal portion of the blame. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Why does everyone have such a hard time reading your name? F-E-N-R-I-S, folks. Not "Fenis" (which likely rhymes with "*****") or "Ferris" (like the wheel at the amusement park).
<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
Why does everyone have such a hard time reading your name? F-E-N-R-I-S, folks. Not "Fenis" (which likely rhymes with "*****") or "Ferris" (like the wheel at the amusement park).
<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 0
From: Objects in mirror no longer matter.
Re: Fenris, GaryZ etc. further header discussion </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSDude:
<strong> Fenis,
Wouldn't a stepped header be better for producing low end torque than a "straight" header? What is your take on this? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey dude, my personal opinion is that there is merit to the stepped header design but no one has done it right yet. Just like an equal length header, getting a uniform first step length (the length of the smaller diameter primary) is CRITICAL to get any gains. Unfortunately the Dynatechs I saw had step lengths off by as much as 50% from an adjacent primary. I can't speak for our new sponsor, Kooks, on the matter, but give them a ring.
<strong> Fenis,
Wouldn't a stepped header be better for producing low end torque than a "straight" header? What is your take on this? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey dude, my personal opinion is that there is merit to the stepped header design but no one has done it right yet. Just like an equal length header, getting a uniform first step length (the length of the smaller diameter primary) is CRITICAL to get any gains. Unfortunately the Dynatechs I saw had step lengths off by as much as 50% from an adjacent primary. I can't speak for our new sponsor, Kooks, on the matter, but give them a ring.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 0
From: Objects in mirror no longer matter.
Re: Fenris, GaryZ etc. further header discussion </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JamMasterJ:
<strong> The funny part of all this is that while this discussion looks in depth, we haven't yet begun in so many ways. Theres still the discussion and point to make about the differences in the energy wave (1300+fps) and spent exhaust gases (300+fps) and how they react with differing designs. The associated reversion waves, wave harmonics, amplification and cancellation. These factors can cause us to look more seriously at the desire for the equal length headers(which of course, aren't to be had in the retail market for the most part), properly sized merge collectors(to large a merge and we lose scavenging, to small a merge and we get too much back pressure), and every facet from whats after the merge to the grind of the camshaft. The complex nature of this discussion will only lead to more inaccuracies and mistakes as each variable of the discussion is added. I would venture a guess that no matter how much we study, read and learn about different exhaust theory, were venturing into rocket science. When Just buy the damn grotts, preferablly stainless ones...in fact, ceramic coated stainless ones, but not SLP's.
On that note: I would think that if I had stainless QTP's (which I do, was one of the 1st few obviously) and I wanted to coat them (which I do) I should coat the inside...others say do the outside...most say do both....but if I was only to do one of the two, which would you guys choose, and why. Fenris...Colonel??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Personally I wouldn't coat the stainless headers. SLP does it because they use a very low grade "stainless" steel that won't stand up to the elements. The SS 304 on your headers is much more resistant and has approximately one third of the heat transfer coefficient of a typical aluminized steel found in exhaust systems.
<strong> The funny part of all this is that while this discussion looks in depth, we haven't yet begun in so many ways. Theres still the discussion and point to make about the differences in the energy wave (1300+fps) and spent exhaust gases (300+fps) and how they react with differing designs. The associated reversion waves, wave harmonics, amplification and cancellation. These factors can cause us to look more seriously at the desire for the equal length headers(which of course, aren't to be had in the retail market for the most part), properly sized merge collectors(to large a merge and we lose scavenging, to small a merge and we get too much back pressure), and every facet from whats after the merge to the grind of the camshaft. The complex nature of this discussion will only lead to more inaccuracies and mistakes as each variable of the discussion is added. I would venture a guess that no matter how much we study, read and learn about different exhaust theory, were venturing into rocket science. When Just buy the damn grotts, preferablly stainless ones...in fact, ceramic coated stainless ones, but not SLP's.
On that note: I would think that if I had stainless QTP's (which I do, was one of the 1st few obviously) and I wanted to coat them (which I do) I should coat the inside...others say do the outside...most say do both....but if I was only to do one of the two, which would you guys choose, and why. Fenris...Colonel??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Personally I wouldn't coat the stainless headers. SLP does it because they use a very low grade "stainless" steel that won't stand up to the elements. The SS 304 on your headers is much more resistant and has approximately one third of the heat transfer coefficient of a typical aluminized steel found in exhaust systems.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 0
From: Objects in mirror no longer matter.
Re: Fenris, GaryZ etc. further header discussion </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong> Fenris, were you aware that you were "trolling" Barry's thread? Weird. It looked to me like you were just asking a question about a possible design change. I'd say the worst you're guilty of is "hijacking," not "trolling." And even then, the others that continued the discussion share an equal portion of the blame. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Why does everyone have such a hard time reading your name? F-E-N-R-I-S, folks. Not "Fenis" (which likely rhymes with "*****") or "Ferris" (like the wheel at the amusement park).
<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Alan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> I wrote Wilwaxu and Barry of QTP a letter of apology a few days ago. My intention was to bring a possible design change to light that all of us could benefit from, no harm intended. Guess it got a little out of hand when someone else vehemently voiced their doubts about something they did not know much about. Oh well, no harm no foul <img border="0" alt="[evil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
Fenris
-Header Troll <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<strong> Fenris, were you aware that you were "trolling" Barry's thread? Weird. It looked to me like you were just asking a question about a possible design change. I'd say the worst you're guilty of is "hijacking," not "trolling." And even then, the others that continued the discussion share an equal portion of the blame. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Why does everyone have such a hard time reading your name? F-E-N-R-I-S, folks. Not "Fenis" (which likely rhymes with "*****") or "Ferris" (like the wheel at the amusement park).
<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Alan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> I wrote Wilwaxu and Barry of QTP a letter of apology a few days ago. My intention was to bring a possible design change to light that all of us could benefit from, no harm intended. Guess it got a little out of hand when someone else vehemently voiced their doubts about something they did not know much about. Oh well, no harm no foul <img border="0" alt="[evil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
Fenris
-Header Troll <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Re: Fenris, GaryZ etc. further header discussion Alan...smokin' numbers you have there! Wow. Fenris... I, for one, usually appreciate the thoughtm provoking...and some times just provoking posts you write. It's a fresh blast or info and knowledge and opinion that creates some of the more active threads. As far as 304 being a better grade than SLP..very true...but I would still think there would be a benefit to coating if under the hood heat is an issue. i have the BG ram so its not an issue to me, but to others grabbing heat fromt the engine compartment, it may make a difference, all be it small. No?
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
From: Native Texan
Re: Fenris, GaryZ etc. further header discussion </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JamMasterJ:
<strong> On that note: I would think that if I had stainless QTP's (which I do, was one of the 1st few obviously) and I wanted to coat them (which I do) I should coat the inside...others say do the outside...most say do both....but if I was only to do one of the two, which would you guys choose, and why. Fenris...Colonel??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I say have them coated. I think that the inside will be more important beacuse it will help hold the heat (energy) in the header but the outside would also be another barrier that heat would have to travel through. So I say coat inside and out. I don't care about looks but most do and this would also impart a better look on the header. Just my .02.
Later,
Bart
<strong> On that note: I would think that if I had stainless QTP's (which I do, was one of the 1st few obviously) and I wanted to coat them (which I do) I should coat the inside...others say do the outside...most say do both....but if I was only to do one of the two, which would you guys choose, and why. Fenris...Colonel??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I say have them coated. I think that the inside will be more important beacuse it will help hold the heat (energy) in the header but the outside would also be another barrier that heat would have to travel through. So I say coat inside and out. I don't care about looks but most do and this would also impart a better look on the header. Just my .02.
Later,
Bart
