Mid-length headers?
Mid-length headers? Do mid-length headers have the same rattle/vibration issues that seem to come with LTs? How much of a power difference is there between the two? Are they easier to install? How much would I be spending for a set that won't rust out in a few months? (NJ sometimes sees some stupid weather)
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From: England UK
If changing the headers you may as well go for LT's. Check what LT's fit well. Will be plenty of posts on here of peoples opinions. I heard the SLP have ground clearence issues. Dynatech SuperMAXX fit perfect, no rattle, but tend to cost more than most LT's.
If all installed correctly it shouldn't rattle.
If all installed correctly it shouldn't rattle.
I'd definately say go with LT's. I put MAC mids on my car and for the same hassel, I'm leaving some power on the table, especially throughout the curve. Peak numbers shouldn't be too far off (just look at mine), but you'll have a fatter curve w/ LT's. I would say live and learn, but I just don't listen to what people have to say for some reason, so it's my own fault that I'm leaving power on the table! Not that I'm unhappy with my set up, but I'm looking for that 11 sec. slip and I could've easily picked up the few extra ponies I need if I went LT. Good luck with which ever you choose!
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From: England
Originally Posted by Ironxcross
Do mid-length headers have the same rattle/vibration issues that seem to come with LTs? How much of a power difference is there between the two? Are they easier to install? How much would I be spending for a set that won't rust out in a few months? (NJ sometimes sees some stupid weather)
Go LT, they are just as easy to install and the same price. Power from them is down to scavenging more than flow. Mids only scavenge at stupid rpms, so LT's is the only sensible option.
Most people have no problem with costed mild steel headers like Edlebock or Pacesetter. They will rust, but they should last some time, it depends on how long you think you will keep the car.
If you want stainless steel then look to Kooks or QTP, but it will cost you double.
I'll vote MACs. Mine were easier to install than ANY LT i've installed, have no rattles, fit better with better ground clearance and I made 400RWHP though them with minimal mods.
Originally Posted by gillbot
I'll vote MACs. Mine were easier to install than ANY LT i've installed, have no rattles, fit better with better ground clearance and I made 400RWHP though them with minimal mods.
Mine were a pain but the ground clearence is great. and I too made close to 400rwhp
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
Stainless mids are nonexistent, as far as I know. Some will say that the better coatings will save them, but, they don't understand just how many billions of tons of salt the DOT in Joyzee dumps on the roads during a typical winter!! (if you have to drive it year 'round). 
So I say, go with one of the best stainless LTs (QTP/Kooks/SW, etc. NOT SLPs). You will still get surface crap on them, but they will never corrode right through (even with our shitty/salt laden winters).
BTW; most of the ground clearance problems with any headers (mid or LT) are in the y pipe setup, NOT the header itself (with the exception of the SLPs, which most will claim do not flow as well either, so thats 2 strikes against them!).
So I say, go with one of the best stainless LTs (QTP/Kooks/SW, etc. NOT SLPs). You will still get surface crap on them, but they will never corrode right through (even with our shitty/salt laden winters).
BTW; most of the ground clearance problems with any headers (mid or LT) are in the y pipe setup, NOT the header itself (with the exception of the SLPs, which most will claim do not flow as well either, so thats 2 strikes against them!).
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Ground clearance with my Mac mids (y pipe) was worse than my long tubes. The mids definately have better k member clearance though. Power and sound are better with the long tubes.
I really think that the mids would only give little to no gains. The noise level would be louder. I picked up some slps for 300.00 and a new y-pipe for a benny from this site, just wait and scan ebay, this site craigs list and camaroz28.
Originally Posted by tylerdurden
I really think that the mids would only give little to no gains. The noise level would be louder. I picked up some slps for 300.00 and a new y-pipe for a benny from this site, just wait and scan ebay, this site craigs list and camaroz28.
This is WRONG. Yes, the Macs will give a gain. Just ask all of the people running h/c combinations back in '99-00 before there was a long tube available for our cars.
Power between a mid and long tube will be nearly identical at peak RWHP.
Ben T.
Originally Posted by Studytime
This is WRONG. Yes, the Macs will give a gain. Just ask all of the people running h/c combinations back in '99-00 before there was a long tube available for our cars.
Power between a mid and long tube will be nearly identical at peak RWHP.
Ben T.
Power between a mid and long tube will be nearly identical at peak RWHP.
Ben T.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: England
Originally Posted by Studytime
This is WRONG. Yes, the Macs will give a gain. Just ask all of the people running h/c combinations back in '99-00 before there was a long tube available for our cars.
Power between a mid and long tube will be nearly identical at peak RWHP.
Ben T.
Power between a mid and long tube will be nearly identical at peak RWHP.
Ben T.
I've heard it claimed that for a shortie to scavenge on a LS1 you would need to be running around 10,000rpm.
Mids will operate in a lower rpm range, but it's true the best gains will be shown on high reving h/c setups. Sadly the collector on the Mac mids in not sufficent for a LS1. Ideally you really want a collector size of no smaller than 3".
Lt's scavenge across most of the LSx's rpm range, hence you will see the best gains and across the widest powerband.
It all boils down to a simple choice.
N/A setups = LT's. PEROID
FI = Any tubular exhaust manifold. Better the flwo better the potential.
CA = Tough luck, stick with stock for n/a. And save all your money for FI.
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
Yep that's correct. This is due to scavenging. the shorter the primary the higher the rpm required to scavenge.
I've heard it claimed that for a shortie to scavenge on a LS1 you would need to be running around 10,000rpm.
Mids will operate in a lower rpm range, but it's true the best gains will be shown on high reving h/c setups. Sadly the collector on the Mac mids in not sufficent for a LS1. Ideally you really want a collector size of no smaller than 3".
Lt's scavenge across most of the LSx's rpm range, hence you will see the best gains and across the widest powerband.
It all boils down to a simple choice.
N/A setups = LT's. PEROID
FI = Any tubular exhaust manifold. Better the flwo better the potential.
CA = Tough luck, stick with stock for n/a. And save all your money for FI.
I've heard it claimed that for a shortie to scavenge on a LS1 you would need to be running around 10,000rpm.
Mids will operate in a lower rpm range, but it's true the best gains will be shown on high reving h/c setups. Sadly the collector on the Mac mids in not sufficent for a LS1. Ideally you really want a collector size of no smaller than 3".
Lt's scavenge across most of the LSx's rpm range, hence you will see the best gains and across the widest powerband.
It all boils down to a simple choice.
N/A setups = LT's. PEROID
FI = Any tubular exhaust manifold. Better the flwo better the potential.
CA = Tough luck, stick with stock for n/a. And save all your money for FI.
Well I have an LT1, so a set up that scavenges at a lower RPM would be very beneficial to me, right? Shorties aren't an option, too much for too little. I'm trying to stay emissions legal, but its starting to not look possible. Considering inspection for me in every two years, I'm not entirely concerned. Do you think LTs on a daily driver would work with minimal to no problems?
P.S - whats 'CA'?
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,660
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From: England
CA = Calafornia
Yes Lt's should be no problem for a DD. I ru them on my TR7 V8 and that's was my DD for well over 3 years.
Passing emissoins testing depends on where you are. Visual they will check for CATS, no problem just run some good high flow cats. ODBII, make sure no error codes are being thrown.
Sniffer is a bit tougher. CATS will usually be fine, but a wild cam may push you over the limits. You'll have to research it.
The reason LT's are not acceptable in CA, is they move the stock location of the CATS. This technically is illegal everywhere in the US, but not many places appear to bother. Also to be emissions compliant in CA everything must be CARB approved.
Yes Lt's should be no problem for a DD. I ru them on my TR7 V8 and that's was my DD for well over 3 years.
Passing emissoins testing depends on where you are. Visual they will check for CATS, no problem just run some good high flow cats. ODBII, make sure no error codes are being thrown.
Sniffer is a bit tougher. CATS will usually be fine, but a wild cam may push you over the limits. You'll have to research it.
The reason LT's are not acceptable in CA, is they move the stock location of the CATS. This technically is illegal everywhere in the US, but not many places appear to bother. Also to be emissions compliant in CA everything must be CARB approved.
12 Second Club
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,273
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
The reason LT's are not acceptable in CA, is they move the stock location of the CATS. This technically is illegal everywhere in the US, but not many places appear to bother.
Cases in point; I'm running pure stock exhaust manifolds/catted down pipes. One time I had to call in the inspection station manager since the dumb $h!ts they had working there could not find/see the cats (despite me literally pointing them out to these idiots), and were dead set on failing a PERFECTLY LEGAL car (I had already passed the OBD plug in test)!!
At this same exact station, at a different time, others have gone right through with LTs, "fake cats" (covers spot welded over offroad y pipe), no air, no egr, etc. GO FIGURE!
