500hp heads & cam
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Monticello, Ky
500hp heads & cam ok to start off im running stock crank, h beam rods, lunati forged pistons cr is 12:5.1.....now what do you guys think about getting a set of tfs 215's and their new cam they came out with...this be close to 500whp? or should i choose another cam? specs are 238/242 .595"/.595" 112LSA
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 1
From: Western Burbs of Detroit
Sounds like you have a good chance at making 500 rwhp and then some. 12.5 : 1 is huge compression, it should help your 346 make gobs of torque as well. Do you have all bolt ons as well ?? I'd suggest a ported 92mm FAST from Ron at Vengeance. He can open the inlet to either 95 or 100 mm's and match a Rev Xtreme 95/100 mm tb to it. The 95mm tb and inlet allowed my setup to make an additional 6.3 rwhp 13.8 rwtq at peak, but if you look at power under the curve 3200-5200 she is up as much at 20 rwhp 20 rwtq !! Good luck, and give Ron at Vengeance, and Tracy at RevXtreme a call, they can help you out if you aren't already setup.
With that kind of compression, and that intake, you will make a little more top-end power with a 110 LSA.
With good TFS or AFR heads, I would consider something like...
240/248 @ .050", 109 or 110 LSA, .620" to .640" lift.
... if you are looking for 500 RWHP from a 346-347,
assuming you are not too concerned about daily driveability.
With good TFS or AFR heads, I would consider something like...
240/248 @ .050", 109 or 110 LSA, .620" to .640" lift.
... if you are looking for 500 RWHP from a 346-347,
assuming you are not too concerned about daily driveability.
Driveability on a 346 motor making 500 to the ground is very hard to achieve. Pat G did it to the T as far as street goes. Why not switch to the lq4 and be able to acheive your goal with a better curve and a less radical(comparative) cam. But hay thats just me....... I would go with the afr's... They never let down even when they are takin out of the box. Tuners has a huge deal to do with getting the number as well as making it driveable
11 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: where the wind comes sweepin down the plains
Not tryin to be a smart *** but a tighter lobe separation will always move peak power lower in the rpm range, not higher. LSA is directly related to overlap, and the less overlap (or wider LSA), the higher up your power will move. When the exhaust valve is on the closing ramp, and the intake valve starts to open(overlap), there is a pressure differential from air going past the exhaust valve that pulls air into the cylinder through the intake, but at higher rpm and/or with a bigger stroke (higher piston speeds), or bigger bore (more piston displacement), this becomes less important because the piston is creating more of a pressure differential to pull more air into the cylinder on the intake stroke, which basically overpowers the effects of overlap described above. just wanted to clear that up...
but as far as heads/cam selection goes, AFR would not put their name on something that isn't going to make awesome power. If in doubt though, call up AFR and see what they say for your application.
but as far as heads/cam selection goes, AFR would not put their name on something that isn't going to make awesome power. If in doubt though, call up AFR and see what they say for your application.
Last edited by ssinister550; Feb 22, 2009 at 11:47 PM.
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Monticello, Ky
yea not really worried about driveability seeing the only time it will be driven is to the track or to a local car show...just want something with a lot of power but keeping the 347 N/A...but i have decided to go with the trick flows now just looking for a cam? any suggestions...
Trending Topics
11 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: where the wind comes sweepin down the plains
yea not really worried about driveability seeing the only time it will be driven is to the track or to a local car show...just want something with a lot of power but keeping the 347 N/A...but i have decided to go with the trick flows now just looking for a cam? any suggestions...
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Five Reasons the Camaro Was the Most Pivotal Player in the Pony Car Wars 2.0
Brett Foote
If I can make 500+ through 4.56's in a 12-bolt with a stock bottom end you should have no problem.
TFS makes awesome heads, and the higher compression should help as well.
I feel that the cam is a little light on lift, but Im not an expert.
You will have to buzz it up a bit, I dont think you will make 500 with a 6200rpm redline, so make sure your springs can handle the lift at 7000rpm or so. Seeing as how it is a built bottom end I dont see why the bottom end will not hold the rpm. Just a matter of making the valvetrain stable at high rpms.
A good tuner is a must as well.
TFS makes awesome heads, and the higher compression should help as well.
I feel that the cam is a little light on lift, but Im not an expert.
You will have to buzz it up a bit, I dont think you will make 500 with a 6200rpm redline, so make sure your springs can handle the lift at 7000rpm or so. Seeing as how it is a built bottom end I dont see why the bottom end will not hold the rpm. Just a matter of making the valvetrain stable at high rpms.
A good tuner is a must as well.
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Monticello, Ky
yea right now i have a custom n20 cam and ported 317's but im just not happy with the power...only made 352whp N/A and 522 on the spray...ill be running a 36-3800 stall, turbo 350, and for now a stock 10 bolt with 3.73's...but ill def. be going with the tfs 215 heads...with the valve springs that come on them will i be able to spin the engine to 68-7000 with no problems in the valve train or do i need to upgrade the springs?
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Monticello, Ky
i bought the forged long block for 2500 bucks so i couldn't complain....i may go bigger in the future but u wanna stay stock cubes for now....so just looking for a good cam now!!
Simply untrue.. It's about valve events, not simply wider LSA vs closer LSA. Valve events need to be determined based on complete combo, not one or two items. Everything comes in to play from throttle body, intake manifold design, head flow, header diameter/length, collector design, pipe after collector ext. I'm no expert but I can tell you it's not that simple
There is a such thing as too much lobe seperation. There needs to be a balance. There becomes diminishing returns for everything at some point.
11 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: where the wind comes sweepin down the plains
Simply untrue.. It's about valve events, not simply wider LSA vs closer LSA. Valve events need to be determined based on complete combo, not one or two items. Everything comes in to play from throttle body, intake manifold design, head flow, header diameter/length, collector design, pipe after collector ext. I'm no expert but I can tell you it's not that simple
There is a such thing as too much lobe seperation. There needs to be a balance. There becomes diminishing returns for everything at some point.
There is a such thing as too much lobe seperation. There needs to be a balance. There becomes diminishing returns for everything at some point.
Last edited by ssinister550; Feb 24, 2009 at 02:55 PM.
11 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: where the wind comes sweepin down the plains
yea right now i have a custom n20 cam and ported 317's but im just not happy with the power...only made 352whp N/A and 522 on the spray...ill be running a 36-3800 stall, turbo 350, and for now a stock 10 bolt with 3.73's...but ill def. be going with the tfs 215 heads...with the valve springs that come on them will i be able to spin the engine to 68-7000 with no problems in the valve train or do i need to upgrade the springs?
Last edited by ssinister550; Feb 25, 2009 at 12:32 AM.
Be careful with the Victor Jr. and 90mm TB. Most people have disappointing results compared to a ported FAST because they choose a bad intake elbow. Many elbows on the market ruin flow into the single plane intake, negating their higher flowing potential. As a result, they have crappy bottom end torque (due to the short runner length) and less than stellar top end (due to a poorly engineered/restrictive intake elbow). The best arrangement for a single plane is to use a top-mount 4bbl throttle body like an Accufab, but some elbows do work. Just be aware. And as others have mentioned, your cam choice will be different for a single plane than a FAST intake.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
yes its obvious that your induction system affects where your power is made and how much is made, and cam selection needs to be based off induction system, exhaust sytem, displacement, intended use etc. I wasnt arguing that, i was saying a given engine combonation with a given cam on say a 112 lsa, if you put a cam in with the same duration, lift, lobe designs etc. but on a 110 lsa, your peak power will move lower in the rpm range, and if go the other way, same lobes, lift, duration, etc. but on say a 114 lsa, your peak power will move higher in the rpm range, this is fact.
Your original statement was a generalazation that was untrue though:
Not tryin to be a smart *** but a tighter lobe separation will always move peak power lower in the rpm range, not higher.
Take for instance a 243/250 108/111, basically a Trex.. I use this as an example as it's what I amd currently running. Using Performance Trends engine analyzer, I have played around with ICL and ECL. There is a point that too wide of an LSA will reduce upper RPM HP. Here is a print screen of engine analyzer data. All I changed in the cam profile was ECL and I did it in 4* steps effectively changing the LSA by 2* each time. I widened the ECL from 114 to 118 then to 122. Look what is happening. It is not extending the power further in RPM, it is actually reducing it.
I played with it the other direction as well, moving the ECL to 110 and 106, it actually carried a little further than the 114 it's ground on, but and this is a big but, it showed a ton of TQ loss down low.
I'm no expert but I feel Thunder did a good job putting this cam together and picked fairly optimal valve events.
Again, it's about valve events.
