Interesting question...where are you going with it (no flame, just curious)? I guess you could hypothetically produce two different porting jobs...one that produces more area under the curve at the sacrifice of peak numbers (better track times and what not). You could also produce the opposite if so inclined. Are you considering such an undertaking? In the interest of giving a customer what they want it would be a smart business move, but I'd really question someone asking for heads that will produce great peak numbers for the sake of dyno bragging rights.

In summary, just keep doing what your doing brother...it seems to be working.

 

Dyno numbers are nice to brag about but I'd love to be able to tell someone that my car ran an 11 (maybe, someday!). I think what I really like best is the ability to have the low end grunt to pull away from my buddy's '03 Cobra at a 60 roll! Now your talking!

 

I think you need to look at 2 things, 1 for dyno numbers
and 1 for track numbers:

For the dyno you need to look at what parts are on the
car, mainly the driveline. IF the car is set up for the
dyno then you can't compare it to one that is not. Alum
flywheel, lighter driveshafts, STOCK rears(a big one
people fail to take ino consideration), auto versus stick,
tire pressure, big stalls, locked versus unlocked, the dyno facility itself,
short belt, etc, etc). All of these can contribute to higher or lower dyno
numbers depending on how they are used. So when
looking at someones numbers, one must take into
consideration these factors. One head and cam car may
make more power than another with the same heads and
cam, the difference may be a stock rear versus a 9 inch.
I will look at a guy who posts 450 wheel horse with a head
and cam car, and I look at his sig and he is running dual
cutouts, short belt, and a stock rear. Put a real rear behind that car
and a full exhaust and see what it dynos?

For track times, I think one of the biggest factors has to
be raceweight. I see alot of cars that dyno low may run
faster because they only have a 3400lb raceweight,
another car may dyno high but go 3700lbs, and run less.
This doesn't mean the slower car makes less power, but
I will see people bash that car because it ran so slow.

We must compare apples to apples when looking at
numbers, either mph and et or dyno.

 

Personally I think the only people that aren't concerned with dyno numbers are people who aren't making the number. The dyno is a TOOL to measure the power of the products that you have paid for! For example, on my race sled motor that was suppose to make 230hp. Witch is what I paid for, I tested in the feild for a year, trying every setup in the book wasting time and money! Only to find out AT THE DYNO the motor made 183hp. So I feel dynos are a tool to measure power. It would be way too complicated to try to buy a et. TOO many differences in cars. So if someone were advertising 450hp and you get 410hp that is wrong. If you go to eat, and order a 1lb lobster and you get a half pound lobster, and the owner says hey if it fills you up whats the difference! The difference is I paid for a one pounder. So I guess I would rather have the dyno queen!

 

In a nutshell what you put down at the dyno, is what you can theoretically can run at the track if you can put it down, so I will say I like both numbers, because they are directly related, maybe some dynos are off then others maybe not, but I do know if i run 11.50s with 400 rwhp and i redyno with a new mod and put down 420rwhp, and its in most of my power band, then I can expect to go the track and run 11.30, provided I can put the new found power to the ground, hence yes its just a tuning tool, but I still care what it puts down to make sure its on par with other setups.

it is slightly stupid to compare dynos accross the country, but if a 422 stroker puts down 500rwhp, and yours put down 430rwhp you would wonder wtf just happened, the car can trap 127-128, but there is the weight variable too, which I think most people tend to overlook.

for example car A has 450rwhp and is full weight it traps 120, car B has 420 rwhp and weighs 500 pounds less than car A and it traps 122.

my buddy's full weight TA trapped 118 with 422rwhp, nittos, lowered suspension, etc we added cylinder heads that gained us 35 rwhp it is pretty safe to assume it should trap 121, drop some weight 122-124 trap depending on the weight loss.

ok im rambling now, lol

 

Dyno's are a tuning/benchmark tool ... But I think there is less variance between different dynojet dynos than people believe.

Nick tuned my car and we were on two different dynos. The difference was within 3 rwhp 399 and 402. I know cars that have been on both of those dynos and gone to MMS and were also with 2-3 rwhp as well as a 4th Dynojet in the bay area ... the differences are all within 2-3 rwhp and it's not always the same one that is higher.

Now there are people that will "game" the dyno ... short belts, overinflated tires .. etc ...

 

High dyno numbers are nice but I care more about quick ET's. I don't street race, so my car is geared more 1/4 mile racing. Car setup and driver play a big part of getting down the track. I may be old, but I can still get the car down the track. For the guys that street race from a roll, high HP may be more important then area under the curve. My car is not the highest dynoing car around, though it compares favorably with cars that have dynoed around here. My car has all the required safety equipment, and is by no means stripped. Raceweight between 3500-3550 depending on how much gas I have. Next spring I will have 28" slicks and a bit more gear, to see how quick a 3500 lb 346 ci M6 car can go.

Bruce

 

Bruce picks on all of us down here - lol.

 

hehehe... he's a pure bully I tell ya!

Bruce, we are staging next spring for a lil A4 vs m6 ACTION

but gomer, you cant compare this roll racing crap. Escpially when racing against A4's and you have a M6. Hell a bolt on M6 with 340hp with good driver could give a H/C A4 a lil fit from a roll. I mean take my friends car who went 11.6's bolt on in his M6. He dynoed 354hp i think? Trapped 119 BOLT ON... im willin to beat his car woulda gave you one hellova time from a 60punch. Why?? cause his car weighs 3100 pounds or so. Just a plain jane no power anything Z28 Best way to go if you drag race. But now he has TEA heads and a 224 cam and dynoed 435 I believe.

im all for ET.. i'd rather have a 277hp car that runs 11's than to have a 450hp and not break 11's LMAO That just means Im one $hitty driver

dyno's are great for tuning and dailin in the A/F! If you get a good dyno number, than awesome. But if you cant get the ET to back it up you are missing 50% of the equation Dynos would be great for testing different mods, as long as you us the same dyno over and over. Granted there could be slight difference cause the dyno coulda got off a lil bit.

MPH at the track also helps determine how much power you are making

but to answer the question by Brent, i'd take ET over dyno numbers Mine dynoed 399.9 and now I just need to run the 11.0's like the others did with 399-400HP in there A4's just need a good 60ft and some goiod air

 

I'm interested in having a good dyno sheet, that shows the engine is making power where I want it to.

But the track is where it's at. My car does well on the track, and on the street. When the car was bolt ons, it dynoed 300 on a Mustang dyno, the next day ran a 11.49@117.

Now, on motor the 393 dynoed 420, and ran a 11.1 @121 on motor @ 3550 raceweight. 9.90 @137 with size 28 square jets in the NOS nozzle DP.

It appears that most of the guys on the board want to go fast, but appear to be hooked on getting the good dyno #. It's easy to get caught up in having the best dyno sheet, but what good is it to have a powerful setup, when it's not reliable. guys in the know would rather have the reliability of a 400T, steel driveshaft & 9" or 12 bolt.

So, I'm interested in track times, & the dyno as tuning tool.

 

That was a lot of years ago, when I was much younger and dumber. I would have to assume that he was going after peak power.

I should clarify a bit. I believe that dynos are a tool that can be used to improve the performance of a car, be it street or strip. However, the absolute numbers aren't what matter. What matters is change in measured power after a tuning or component change, and the tuner (who may be the dyno operator) has to know how to interpret the numbers, matching them to the characteristics of the car. In short, I disagree with the statement that "dyno's don't mean crap", I would agree with "most folks interpretation of dyno numbers don't mean crap" or something like that.

Successful tuners don't tune an engine for ET. They tune a chassis for ET and tune the engine for MPH. Predicting street performance from 1/4 MPH has it's limits though. A motor built for high RPM HP may MPH well in the 1/4, but be a dog on the street since it doesn't come on the cam until 5000.

 

I have no problem with that. I would expect correctly calibrated Dynojets to give the same numbers on the same car. But I'll bet if we lift the engine out of your car and put it in mine, the numbers will _not_ be the same, and perhaps not even close. That is why comparing your numbers and my numbers is meaningless.

 

It's hard to say which is better on the original question. Both the dyno and the track are tuning tools in a sense. Without dynoing, you can tell if you car is not running right if you've slowed down at the track. And comparing track times across the country is the same as comparing dyno numbers; nobody takes altitude correction into account, and a person running in -DA is gonna have a better time with less power than the guy running in 4000+DA. And as mentioned the different weights, gearing, and stall make all the difference for 1320 ft so its hard to compare cars not modified the same.

I'm with the guys on here who are looking for more power to the wheels on the street. It's more fun to have a daily driver with high hp, than one that is setup to run the 1/4 because I dont see too many people lifting the wheels on the street.

This question basically separates those that like to go fast from those who like to be quick. JmX is right on that 12.1 @ 125 is better than 10.9 @ 116.

 

Dyno numbers show the potential. And Track times show how the chassis and driver use that potential combined with weather conditions.

By dyno numbers, I mean "Power under the curve" not just the peak hp number.
Some cams can give a good high rpm hp "Blip" with no torque, and even though the hp is high, the whole curve is lower until that "Blip" . this kind of curve will not win races.

On the other hand, hp under the curve is what is important. And a dyno will tell you the truth about what you have as your potential. Key word is "Your" potential. Meaning that if you and YOUR car make gains on the dyno, then you and YOUR car will go faster if YOU can put it to the ground. Period.

A car can not go faster by detuning. Then if YOU get lower hp then YOU will go slower, ( unless the air is better).

Now this is NOT ralated to comparing your package to someone elses on x,y or z dyno. If you make gains in Average hp, then you will go faster than you did if you put it to the ground.
Dyno gains are only relative to your own past dyno numbers. And all that matters is power under the curve in the rpm range that your car and it's set up run in.

A peak number means nothing if it is not "Fat" with torque through out the range.

Look at your rpm range that your car runs in at the track, and raise the hp in that whole rpm range that you spend the most time in, and you WILL go faster.

Some chassis and driveline set ups will have more drive line losses, but they can multiply the torque so you will race faster. example: high stalls, or 456 gears will lose hp on the dyno, but yield enough of a "Torque multiplier" that the net result is faster acceleration.

Now take that lower hp number from that high stall and rear gear, and put more hp in that package and you will again go faster. Period.

Where people get confused is trying to compare the high stall and the 456 gear package dyno numbers to another totally different package and then try to determine who will be faster at the track. It can only be measured at the same track on the same day at the same time for it to be meaningful.

Another fact: if you have identical packages and dyno on the same dyno, and one has a lower power curve, (in the usable rpm range) then the car with the lower dyno numbers will have Less Potential and be slower if ALL other factors were equal, ie launch, chassis, driver, weather, etc.

This is why Track numbers mean nothing unless the two cars are running heads up at the same time because the weather and conditions mean everything.

If two cars with equal hp curves, (in fact identical) go to different tracks and one track is a negative 2000 DA and the other goes to a track with a positive 1500 DA there is a 14% difference in the uncorrected hp. So on a 470rwhp car that is 60 rwhp that will get to the ground. Which car will go faster?? Easy. The470 car in the -2000 da. Which car is better? Which car has the better engine. neither one, remember they were equal. You could use the same car (rather than 2 different cars) in this example at 2 different tracks under totally different DA, and arrive at the same conclusion.

Each time you run in different weather, you all know the effect. Do dyno numbers matter if the weather is not the same? Yes, but only as stated above, and that is that better dyno hp under the usable curve will yield better results for whatever weather you run in.

So dyno numbers are meaningful as a tool like many have already stated. Improve YOUR package on the dyno and YOU will go faster. Who cares what Joe Blow gets on the dyno in some other state. Just improve your car and your driving and your chassis and hit the weather and you will go faster.

dyno measures potential, you have to unleash it.

LG

 

I think this comes down to auto and M6. The auto is better for the quarter and the M6 is better for the street or a road course. Weight reduction helps everyone but who wants to drive around their daily driver without seats, AC, carpeting, etc. Not to mention tires which are so dangerous in the rain you might as well pull over. Dynos have their place as do the track. Everyone has their preference. I haven't been to the track yet but when I go I want to see what my car will do in it's current state not in a stripped condition. Why? Because I want to guage it's performance as a daily driver and controlled street racing just isn't worth it. From a roll is no problem though. lol

 

TORQUE! I like torque. That is what you feel on the street. I want all I can get!!

 

BTW my thoughts on this topic, were not telated to TEA. I use TEA products and have had great customer support!! Brent is a great guy. I was NOT bashing TEA. Just stating my opinion on HP numbers. Thanks Andy

 

WOW...its pretty interesting to see where different people stand on this. Granted this is only discussed as a poll to see where most stand and i have heard a lot from different sides, but I must follow with this.... Track times are cool, and everybody wants to go faster in the end of course, but it all started with the dynos. When i purchase something for my motor i am truley interested in seeing what i got for my dollar. to say x, and y netted me a 100 horse is what i am looking for. bang for the buck! This points directly to the cars potential at the track but to me dyno is what matters. driving skills vary more than dynos IMHO. Ask yourselves this.... when your buddy bought this head and that cam what was the first question you asked him.... was is what he dynoed or how many tenths he got? also, one last thing... i spend a lot more time driving on the street vs. the track and i want my money's worth. (car payment that is

 

You got it HD. Bring it. I hope you don't think what you saw this year is what you'll see in the spring. Harolds point about racing from a roll are right on. The A4 cars really hook and roll at the track. Racing on the street is a different story. My car is a bitch from a roll up to about 124-128 mph. I do give up some at the track in the first 1/8 to similar A4 cars. From the 1/8 to the traps I'm usually rolling hard on most of them. LG's point is very good, the dyno shows the potential, what you do with it is up to you. That being said I'll take ET's over dyno #'s any day.

Bruce

 

Shiznity has a 370 rwhp car, just went 11.01 tonight