New Valve Springs, now Need New Cam, Lifters, and Valves! wtf??
 

Took my Automatic 2001 Vette (29,000 miles on it) with 3.42 gears and a Yabnk SS 3600 stall in to get new set Patriot Dual Gold Springs. The shop calls me and says Bad news:eyes:

I say, :bang: Apparently my Cam (228/228 .588/.588 114 LSA) has molded or melted or fused with the lifters. Something about the metals of the lifter and cam being close to the same hardness (rockwell hardwell something test?)

Anyway they said my CAM needed to be replaced, the lifters, and Valves, well he said he thought JUST 1 might be Bad (maybe more need to pull everything to see).

I had issues on the dyno on the spray. Thought it could be Torque converter (doubted it) valve springs, or something slipping. Maybe that was my issue because of the added nitrous hp and tq??? Also my NA Dyno was low so I am sure that had somethign to do with it.
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Valves (Guy said I could get away with just 1 Valve) IF everythinbg looked good. SHOULD I replace them all? Does it matter with the low miles I have.

I wonder what CAM. Want bigger but with an automatic, a 3600 stall, and nitrous I am not sure hwo big to go. I am not as much a top end 7,000 rpm guy as much as I am am a lot of low to mid end......

The shop suggested maybe a 228/232 on a 114 LSA (didn't mention the lift. I already have a 228/228 so is that big enough of a difference?

Anyway I am bummed cause I just paid a bunch to fix and oil leak and get my nitrous gauge fixed and then I was about to get sprinngs and now this:eyes:

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What??? That sounds like a bunch of BS! Take your car to another shop ASAP!

What's your RWHP goal? I would opt for a pretty decent-sized cam and if you are worried about adding the same big shot of nitrous, lower the jetting size. Can't recall but I believe you added a 100 shot? If so, put in a 75 shot. If you ever end up improving on your build, you could jus' add on to that 75 shot jetting later on.

A 228/228 to a 228/232 isn't much of a big difference. Since you don't like shifting at 7000 and prefer low-to-midrange, I'd recommend something on a tighter lobe. I think a 234/242 110 + 4 would be a winner. I'm not sure what you're clearance is with your particular heads so you might have to go with a 112 + 4.

228/232 Dyno results
 

Here's a link from a cam only setup

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...424-396-a.html

If you let these people fix your car, it will never run right. I promise you that.

Get your car out of that shop NOW!

Whats the name of the shop?

So you can make sure you never visit them?!?
:nod:

This is a very reputable shop. I know the owner and the guys working on my car are not making it up. I already went in and TRIED to do a CAM swap and they told me NOT TO and it wasn't really worth it, also asked for hardeded push rods and said didn't need them or it is better to bend a rod than destroy a piston.

So all I am saying is they had a chance to try to sell me on things (New Cam, push rods) and didin't so The Shop is Not the issue.

The only reason I brought the car back was to get new Springs and I did that on my own account. Then when they took things apart this was discovered.

It sucks but it is what it is. Also they told me I might only need 1 valve instead of saying I needed a new set, so the intesnt isn't to make up BS chanrges or issues with the car.....

BUT I totally understand you guy's reactions and that would have been mine too IF I didn't know these guys very well.

Any shop that tells you to run stock push rods with the rest of the valve train upgraded with an after market cam does not have a clue ... I would get your car ...even if you have to tow it .... out of that shop right now..there are a lot of very good shops in texas..but I would say that you found a bogus one for sure ... I do not care how well you know them they obviously are are not a good shop with the advise they are giving you ... try texas speed or LG or any one besides those guys .. :D

I get what you are saying but shops usually are more interested in charging for labor then the profit they make being the middle man when selling parts. Not saying that's the case with this shop, but something to take into consideration.

What I bolded here^^

Non hardened pushrods MAY save you if you have over revved to the point where the valve hit the piston hard enough to break and drop the head into the cylinder. But you have an automatic, so that won't happen. Just keep an extra set of non hardened pushrods in your garage and learn how to change them, because every time you take the car past 6000 you are going to run the risk of one bending under the faster acceleration and stronger spring pressure over stock. I see a "What is this ticking noise" thread in your future.

I don't think anyone is saying the shop is trying to overcharge you, but with a statement like the one bolded above, it seems they just don't know what they're doing. How well you know them won't change that.

A bent pushrod will only save you if the cam install was FUBAR from the get go, and the LSx engines are notorious for weak pushrods. If they put the 228 cam in, that may be a testament to the confidence in their work. With a properly setup cam and valvetrain system, the weak pushrods will typically cost you lift and duration, effectively making your cam smaller.

I think their cam selection would have been good though. I don't see a single pattern cam being optimal for a nitrous car. There is a lot more exhaust that needs to be evacuated, so you would typically want more exhaust duration, opening earlier in respect to TDC.

Anyone that knows anything about engine parts will tell you thats 100% bs.

Now thats funny! :D

Just because you know these guys very well doesn't necessarily make them correct in their diagnosis and treatment of your engine problems. No offense intended, but it appears that you are not all that knowledgeable about these things.

A few folks have offered very good advice: that is, get a second opinion from a known good shop. I heard there are one or two in the Lone Star state.

My take is that your mind is already made up about staying with Shop #1, so we are all talking to the wall.

You really didn't want contrary advice, did you?

Good luck.

Jon

I appreciate all the advice REALLY. This is a reputable shop and I am going to ask AGAIN about exactly what is going on, but I am sure I have an issue and they did not just make it up.

The pushrod thing was more from the owner. He doesn't work on the cars so that was a BAD point to bring up. I just meant he could have sold me on something but said no need to do it. ALSO said I to the existing CAM I had in it (when I was really wanting an LG Cam and trying to talk them into it kinda) SO he could have got me to do an entire CAM swap and didn't.

Again, I am going to call another place just to ask, but I am pretty sure something is wrong with my car. I will go there and have them show me what is wrong just to confirm.

I am not trying to come here and ask advice and NOT be willign to take any, just wanted to share with you.

I MIGHT not have explained everything 100% correctly either.

We will see and THANKS again. This shop does Lots of Vettes and the owner knows me. HE is not doing the work, but the guy who is is very solid and done so many LS1's that he definatley knows his stuff. I am nto saying all that harness $%^&* is accurate but I am sure my cam, lifters and valve are messed up.



I am going to ask another place tomorrow

dose this shop build engines or work with Hp engines a lot?

Here is a reply from the CV Forum:

Before you do anything you need to figure out why this happened to prevent it from happening again. Your explanation sounds like the cam was not hardened correctly or the lifters had issues, however it also sounds like you tagged a valve.

The question in my mind is why did you hit a valve. I would start by pulling all the valve springs and testing them. If you were losing control of the valve train then you were beating on the lifters/cam lobes and the root cause may have been the springs__________________________________

That is what the shop said, that he has only seen it a few times
. Sounds liek the CAm wasn't hardened correctly. I have been told by a few COMP CAm had some issues with this awile back on a few batches, but mine was installed 4-5 years ago so who the heck knows. Also had 22-23 miles on SPRINGS and CAM.

I think the CAM was not hardened as it should have been and the LIFTERS were affected and I also had weak springs. AGAIN I went in to get new springs after I had an issue on dyno on the NITROUS! was fine on NA, so the Nitrous might have pushed everything into overdrive and was the straw that broke tghe cammel's back.

It also didn't dyno that well on NA BUt I didin't lock the TC and I also have an auto. AGAIN, I REALLY HONESTLY do not think someone is trying to pull a fast one on me. I am no dummy and dodn't believe people right out of the box on stuff like this. If it WERE another shop I would be like that's BS! But again been going here a long time and am friends with owner.......................

If they were going to make something up that was broke it sure wouldn't be what they said it was.

This shop does lots of Vettes and has been around 10 years. The guy that looked at it and doing the repairs USED TO work at RPM for a long time before they closed.