bottom end question
bottom end question hey guys, I have an LS1 out of a 2000 camaro z28 that I bought from a friend. approx 65k miles on it. Ran fine, and was running when he wrecked the car. engine/transmission(which I both got from him) were NOT damaged at all. Well I was wanting to strip the engine down to the block and paint the block & while I was in there replace a few things.
Here is my question.
Will it be alright if I replace the main & rod bearings with Clevite? And will it cause a problem if I replace the stock rod bolts with ARP or Katech bolts?
Im wanting to reuse the stock rods, pistons, & crank. Just want to know if replacing the rod bolts & bearing will cause a problem on the reliablity of the bottom end. Ill make sure to label everything so it goes back in the way it came out & lines up right.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
Brenton
Here is my question.
Will it be alright if I replace the main & rod bearings with Clevite? And will it cause a problem if I replace the stock rod bolts with ARP or Katech bolts?
Im wanting to reuse the stock rods, pistons, & crank. Just want to know if replacing the rod bolts & bearing will cause a problem on the reliablity of the bottom end. Ill make sure to label everything so it goes back in the way it came out & lines up right.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
Brenton
Oh and one more quick question. Will the stock pistons handle 430-440rwhp fine or no?
Sorry forgot to ask this question too, but should I use the Clevite P bearings since the rods & crank are factory?
Don't take this the wrong way dude, but use your head.
Look at the price difference between katech's and arp's. Then call a machine shop and see how much it is to re size 8 rods.
The engine is already out of the car, and your replacing the bearings anyways, so why not make sure everything is right?
Trust me, it's a lot easier to do it all while it's out of the car than pull it out and do it a 2nd time.
Get the arp's, bearings, and new rings, and drop the entire short block off at a machine shop and have it gone over...totally.
The money spent having a professional give it the once over and fix what may not be right will be worth it.
Look at the price difference between katech's and arp's. Then call a machine shop and see how much it is to re size 8 rods.
The engine is already out of the car, and your replacing the bearings anyways, so why not make sure everything is right?
Trust me, it's a lot easier to do it all while it's out of the car than pull it out and do it a 2nd time.
Get the arp's, bearings, and new rings, and drop the entire short block off at a machine shop and have it gone over...totally.
The money spent having a professional give it the once over and fix what may not be right will be worth it.
Just another opinion...
I would replace the rod bolts with factory stock LS6 bolts. If they are good enough for the Z06, they are more than adequate for your engine.
Save your money & the associated resizing, & hoo-ha with upgrade bolts.
Been there, done that.
I would replace the rod bolts with factory stock LS6 bolts. If they are good enough for the Z06, they are more than adequate for your engine.
Save your money & the associated resizing, & hoo-ha with upgrade bolts.
Been there, done that.
Last edited by gMAG; Sep 7, 2012 at 11:26 AM.
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Staging Lane
Joined: May 2012
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From: Tri-Cities, TN
Don't take this the wrong way dude, but use your head.
Look at the price difference between katech's and arp's. Then call a machine shop and see how much it is to re size 8 rods.
The engine is already out of the car, and your replacing the bearings anyways, so why not make sure everything is right?
Trust me, it's a lot easier to do it all while it's out of the car than pull it out and do it a 2nd time.
Get the arp's, bearings, and new rings, and drop the entire short block off at a machine shop and have it gone over...totally.
The money spent having a professional give it the once over and fix what may not be right will be worth it.
Look at the price difference between katech's and arp's. Then call a machine shop and see how much it is to re size 8 rods.
The engine is already out of the car, and your replacing the bearings anyways, so why not make sure everything is right?
Trust me, it's a lot easier to do it all while it's out of the car than pull it out and do it a 2nd time.
Get the arp's, bearings, and new rings, and drop the entire short block off at a machine shop and have it gone over...totally.
The money spent having a professional give it the once over and fix what may not be right will be worth it.
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Yes , since it is out and You want it to last because it's right to start and here's why . You can replace You're rod bolts with factory 1's or Katechs and You probably won't change the shape of the rods big ends any more from the bolt change but any connecting rod that has some miles on them are going to be out of round some already so because You want to put new bearings in You basically have to have the rods big ends honed to round again or You're sking for trouble . Oh ya , Clevite and Federal Mogul both make special rod bearings that are .002" larger outer diameter just for having them honed .002" . Federal Mogul has many more choices in those special bearings .
Whats the reason for the rebuild in the first place? I understand its out of the vehicle which makes it easy but it only has 65K miles on it. Does it use oil or leak somewhere etc? If it was well taken care of maintenence wise, it should go another 100K or so no problem and still handle the 430-440 rwhp your wanting. I have a 2000 camaro ls1 I threw a cam, pushrods, and springs in that I turn 6500rpm's in my 66 impala and now has 1xx,xxx miles on it and it runs great, uses no oil or has any problems. I can't imagine one with only 65K has too many problems. Personally I'd clean it up and paint it if you like and run it and use the money elsewhere.
Kevin, that was my original plan was to use the stock shortblock. But a friend of mine who I know is VERY talented & smart on engines recommended me on going with forged pistons, rods, & using the stock crank. he says that me running the stock bottom end up to 6500 rpm at 430-440 rwhp is just a "when" it gives out not "if".
I told him I've seen many guys on here running over 100k miles at 430-450+ and they dont have any problems.
What do you think? Should I just go with the stock bottom end & mod it from there?
I told him I've seen many guys on here running over 100k miles at 430-450+ and they dont have any problems.
What do you think? Should I just go with the stock bottom end & mod it from there?
The question of debate is always finding the right spot to quit on spending money while still accomplishing your goal. If your like me, I say well if I'm replacing rods and pistons and all the bearings and want it to handle that kinda rpm and horsepower, I might as well buy a crank too and have the complete rotating assembly stroked out with aftermarket rods and pistons for not much more since its basically the same amount of work. Lol... Like I said its just my personal opinion and I guess it comes down to your goals on what your doing with the motor. When your pushing some parts to their limits, even a bad tune or even bad fuel can be enough to crack a ring land or anything else.
Lol, I hear ya.
So are you suggesting staying with the stock internals or go ahead and do forged rods/pistons?
I have priced both at a local machine shop.
1. New rod bolts, new bearings, new piston rings, everything cleaned & shortblock reassembled is $700
2. 347ci Forged pistons, Eagle Forged 6.125" rods, stock crank, new bearings/rings, reassembly $2105
Do you think the added 1300 bucks is worth it? I mean for $1300 I could buy a set of American Racing 1 7/8x3" Longtubes or a FAST 102/102 combo (ill be doing both those mods to the top end.) or I could also buy a brand new MS3 cam kit from TSP & a used set of LS6 heads.. lol see why Im debating on using the stock internals.
What would you do if it was your call?
So are you suggesting staying with the stock internals or go ahead and do forged rods/pistons?
I have priced both at a local machine shop.
1. New rod bolts, new bearings, new piston rings, everything cleaned & shortblock reassembled is $700
2. 347ci Forged pistons, Eagle Forged 6.125" rods, stock crank, new bearings/rings, reassembly $2105
Do you think the added 1300 bucks is worth it? I mean for $1300 I could buy a set of American Racing 1 7/8x3" Longtubes or a FAST 102/102 combo (ill be doing both those mods to the top end.) or I could also buy a brand new MS3 cam kit from TSP & a used set of LS6 heads.. lol see why Im debating on using the stock internals.
What would you do if it was your call?
You could buy those parts you have listed and not even touch the bottom end and I think it would hold up just fine, depending the rpm's your wanting to turn etc.. Now a good head upgrade(like afr's) as well and then you might think about doing the bottom end then a bit with maybe the rods. Even then its kinda iffy.. One of my GM books says that the pistons are rated to around 550 hp before the need to go forged. Rods are a little different cause of all the variables with rpm's etc. I'd say if you plan on alot of power or rpm's down the road, just go ahead and do the arp bolts and resize the rods with the bearings and rings like you mentioned for the $700. Anything around 550hp and might as well go aftermarket if your wanting reassurance. I hope this helps and just doesn't confuse you. So many decisions... Lol!
Oh yes decisions decisions.. lol
As for my goal.. H/C/I.. wont be doing FI or nitrous. Actually just so you have an idea of my build here are the main parts
-MS3 cam
-LS6 heads ported
-FAST 102 intake/102 tb
-American Racing LTs no cats
-Borla catback exhaust
thats the main parts, i left out the valve springs & such since those are a necessity etc.. I dont think this setup would even touch the 450rwhp mark. I feel like itd be okay with the stock bottom end but would like some outside opinions & reassurance/facts to back this idea up lol
But I can say for sure that there will be no nitrous or FI. oh and almost forgot, um rpms im not sure on but if i happen to be at a red light and they want to run then im sure ill run it up around 6300-6500 lol
As for my goal.. H/C/I.. wont be doing FI or nitrous. Actually just so you have an idea of my build here are the main parts
-MS3 cam
-LS6 heads ported
-FAST 102 intake/102 tb
-American Racing LTs no cats
-Borla catback exhaust
thats the main parts, i left out the valve springs & such since those are a necessity etc.. I dont think this setup would even touch the 450rwhp mark. I feel like itd be okay with the stock bottom end but would like some outside opinions & reassurance/facts to back this idea up lol
But I can say for sure that there will be no nitrous or FI. oh and almost forgot, um rpms im not sure on but if i happen to be at a red light and they want to run then im sure ill run it up around 6300-6500 lol
I wouldn't think you'd have any problems on a stock bottom with them miles on that setup. Another thing I question is, is the fast 102 intake and tb worth all the money for the gains you get? I can't personally speak from experience here on this one but I do hear alot of guys complain they drop $1300 on that alone just to gain 13 horsepower. LS6 intakes perform pretty well. Maybe you could drop that on the bottom end and spin it to 7k rpm's HAHA 
yeah ive wondered that myself, is the fast 102 worth the $1300. Ive seen some say yes & others say no. Seems like I read somewhere that the fast shows its potential when matched with a cam such as the ms3 or bigger cams. I should probably do some research on the LS6 vs Fast before dropping the coin on it lol.
There was a guy on here with a 240sx ls1 conversion & he put down 420-430 to the wheels with LS6 intake, ms3 cam, ls1 853 ported heads & some type of longtube headers & custom exhaust. I dont know how legit that dyno reading was though lol
There was a guy on here with a 240sx ls1 conversion & he put down 420-430 to the wheels with LS6 intake, ms3 cam, ls1 853 ported heads & some type of longtube headers & custom exhaust. I dont know how legit that dyno reading was though lol
Oh yeah, I wont neglect the valvetrain. Going with PRC .650" Dual Valve Springs, Comp Cams Trunion Upgrade, & LS7 Lifters. Thats what a guy from Texas-Speed recommended me to do since I'll be going with the MS3 cam.
