Cam Degree or straight up?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Cam Degree or straight up? Hey my cam specs for ls1 are
Howards Cam
228/234 112
ICL 108
Lift int-.604
Exh-.609
I realise this has +4 degrees advance and i want to no if its ok to install it straight up dot to dot.I no im going to get flamed for this but i thought id ask first as ive never put a cam in before.
Cheers
Howards Cam
228/234 112
ICL 108
Lift int-.604
Exh-.609
I realise this has +4 degrees advance and i want to no if its ok to install it straight up dot to dot.I no im going to get flamed for this but i thought id ask first as ive never put a cam in before.
Cheers
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Dot to dot is not "straight up".
Straight up is with no advance in grind like 112 LSA and 112 ICL
To install your cam straight up you would have to retard it 4* if it has 4
* advance in it.
Dot to dot is just dot to dot.
Straight up is with no advance in grind like 112 LSA and 112 ICL
To install your cam straight up you would have to retard it 4* if it has 4
* advance in it.
Dot to dot is just dot to dot.
DOT to DOT.. is Straight up....
doesnt matter if you have advance or retard...
if the cam is ground with 4* advance, then straight up is still dot to dot...
meaning it was ground as a 108 ICL with a 112 LSA
also, OP, so you know advancing or retarding the cam will only change the ICL/ECL, the LSA will never change unless you regrind the cam.
straight up would be installing it to cam card specs....
advancing it would be moving it forward from cam card specs.
you probably do not want to advance the cam more...
Install it Dot to Dot, so that ICL is at 108
when in doubt... install it with a degree wheel, and install it to the Valve events on the cam card.
doesnt matter if you have advance or retard...
if the cam is ground with 4* advance, then straight up is still dot to dot...
meaning it was ground as a 108 ICL with a 112 LSA
also, OP, so you know advancing or retarding the cam will only change the ICL/ECL, the LSA will never change unless you regrind the cam.
straight up would be installing it to cam card specs....
advancing it would be moving it forward from cam card specs.
you probably do not want to advance the cam more...
Install it Dot to Dot, so that ICL is at 108
when in doubt... install it with a degree wheel, and install it to the Valve events on the cam card.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
DOT to DOT.. is Straight up....
doesnt matter if you have advance or retard...
if the cam is ground with 4* advance, then straight up is still dot to dot...
meaning it was ground as a 108 ICL with a 112 LSA
also, OP, so you know advancing or retarding the cam will only change the ICL/ECL, the LSA will never change unless you regrind the cam.
straight up would be installing it to cam card specs....
advancing it would be moving it forward from cam card specs.
you probably do not want to advance the cam more...
Install it Dot to Dot, so that ICL is at 108
when in doubt... install it with a degree wheel, and install it to the Valve events on the cam card.
doesnt matter if you have advance or retard...
if the cam is ground with 4* advance, then straight up is still dot to dot...
meaning it was ground as a 108 ICL with a 112 LSA
also, OP, so you know advancing or retarding the cam will only change the ICL/ECL, the LSA will never change unless you regrind the cam.
straight up would be installing it to cam card specs....
advancing it would be moving it forward from cam card specs.
you probably do not want to advance the cam more...
Install it Dot to Dot, so that ICL is at 108
when in doubt... install it with a degree wheel, and install it to the Valve events on the cam card.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
DOT to DOT.. is Straight up....
doesnt matter if you have advance or retard...
if the cam is ground with 4* advance, then straight up is still dot to dot...
meaning it was ground as a 108 ICL with a 112 LSA
also, OP, so you know advancing or retarding the cam will only change the ICL/ECL, the LSA will never change unless you regrind the cam.
straight up would be installing it to cam card specs....
advancing it would be moving it forward from cam card specs.
you probably do not want to advance the cam more...
Install it Dot to Dot, so that ICL is at 108
when in doubt... install it with a degree wheel, and install it to the Valve events on the cam card.
doesnt matter if you have advance or retard...
if the cam is ground with 4* advance, then straight up is still dot to dot...
meaning it was ground as a 108 ICL with a 112 LSA
also, OP, so you know advancing or retarding the cam will only change the ICL/ECL, the LSA will never change unless you regrind the cam.
straight up would be installing it to cam card specs....
advancing it would be moving it forward from cam card specs.
you probably do not want to advance the cam more...
Install it Dot to Dot, so that ICL is at 108
when in doubt... install it with a degree wheel, and install it to the Valve events on the cam card.
The "Straight-Up" Myth
...with the cam installed, fit your timing chain set so that the "dot"' on the cam gear is at 6 o'clock and the "o" icon on the crank gear is at 12 o'clock. You are now done degreeing your cam, proceed with buttoning up the timing chain cover, bolt on your accessories, say a prayer, and fire your motor...
If it was only that easy. This scenario above describes installing a cam at "crank gear zero" and it is not always the optimum way to degree your cam. Curiously, the same procedure is often times and incorrectly referred to as a "straight-up" cam installation. More accurately described however, the term "straight-up" refers to the intake and exhaust centerlines being the same, not the "dot" and "o" icon on the timing gears being directly opposed to one another. In many cases but not all cases, setting the "dot" and "o" icon on the cam gear and crank gear so that they are inline CAN result in a "straight-up" install. But be aware, cams ground with advance built-in, timing chain gears machined with retard built-in, poorly marked timing chain gears, and an accumulation of machine tolerances contribute to the fact that "crank gear zero" and "straight-up" ARE NOT the same thing. In fact, once your cam is set to "crank gear zero" you may have to degree the cam to achieve a "straight-up" install.
Dude, even FORD people know the difference.
The "Straight-Up" Myth
...with the cam installed, fit your timing chain set so that the "dot"' on the cam gear is at 6 o'clock and the "o" icon on the crank gear is at 12 o'clock. You are now done degreeing your cam, proceed with buttoning up the timing chain cover, bolt on your accessories, say a prayer, and fire your motor...
If it was only that easy. This scenario above describes installing a cam at "crank gear zero" and it is not always the optimum way to degree your cam. Curiously, the same procedure is often times and incorrectly referred to as a "straight-up" cam installation. More accurately described however, the term "straight-up" refers to the intake and exhaust centerlines being the same, not the "dot" and "o" icon on the timing gears being directly opposed to one another. In many cases but not all cases, setting the "dot" and "o" icon on the cam gear and crank gear so that they are inline CAN result in a "straight-up" install. But be aware, cams ground with advance built-in, timing chain gears machined with retard built-in, poorly marked timing chain gears, and an accumulation of machine tolerances contribute to the fact that "crank gear zero" and "straight-up" ARE NOT the same thing. In fact, once your cam is set to "crank gear zero" you may have to degree the cam to achieve a "straight-up" install.
The "Straight-Up" Myth
...with the cam installed, fit your timing chain set so that the "dot"' on the cam gear is at 6 o'clock and the "o" icon on the crank gear is at 12 o'clock. You are now done degreeing your cam, proceed with buttoning up the timing chain cover, bolt on your accessories, say a prayer, and fire your motor...
If it was only that easy. This scenario above describes installing a cam at "crank gear zero" and it is not always the optimum way to degree your cam. Curiously, the same procedure is often times and incorrectly referred to as a "straight-up" cam installation. More accurately described however, the term "straight-up" refers to the intake and exhaust centerlines being the same, not the "dot" and "o" icon on the timing gears being directly opposed to one another. In many cases but not all cases, setting the "dot" and "o" icon on the cam gear and crank gear so that they are inline CAN result in a "straight-up" install. But be aware, cams ground with advance built-in, timing chain gears machined with retard built-in, poorly marked timing chain gears, and an accumulation of machine tolerances contribute to the fact that "crank gear zero" and "straight-up" ARE NOT the same thing. In fact, once your cam is set to "crank gear zero" you may have to degree the cam to achieve a "straight-up" install.
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Ok i a friend of mine has just put the same cam in and when he checked his it was 2 deg more advanced than the cam card says so its now 6 deg adv.He is using a cloyes adjustable timing set.Now this could be many variables such as timing set out,chain who knows.But this now has me worried and now the question is would i need to buy a adjustable crank sprocket and put the cam in at -2 to acheive my +4.I dont have a dial indicator or wheel and my cam parts arrive tomorrow.
cheers
cheers
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IMO, get a adjustable timing gear set and borrow what you need to degree it.
Another possible option is to take the cam to a shop that can verify the actual specifications(cam doctor). FYI, it's likely your cam might actually vary from a 226 up to a 230 on the intake side, and from a 230 to 234 on the exhaust, and that's just with a +1% variation, which is common.
Another possible option is to take the cam to a shop that can verify the actual specifications(cam doctor). FYI, it's likely your cam might actually vary from a 226 up to a 230 on the intake side, and from a 230 to 234 on the exhaust, and that's just with a +1% variation, which is common.
