I will be doing a heads and cam swap on my SS and wanted some ideas on a good timing chain combo.

Specifically, do I necessarily need an adjustable setup to degree the cam or would a non adjustable setup work?

After ordering the LS2 chain, I reversed my decision and decided to go with the C-5R chain for piece of mind. I have seen the Cloyes adjustable setup and was wondering if any of you would recommend this over a non adjustable version.

Thanks,

Q

 

Cloyes

 

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the decision to run an adjustable timing chain will rest mostly on how much (if any) advance is ground into the cam. Another aspect is if you want to be able to adjust it quickly to change the driving characteristics. What are your cam specs?

My cam is 115 LSA +1. I installed a non-adjustable timing chain dot-dot and I verified that the valve events were 1-deg off spec. I'm running it like that for now.

 

I will be running a Tickmaster TQMax SNS stage 2: 227/235 61X/62X 110+3. My main concern is the cam not being ground perfectly and needing to change the advance. There will be no need to adjust it quickly but rather adjust it, if needed, during the initial install. This is all new to me so I am trying to make the most informed decision possible before pulling the trigger.

One option is to purchase this: http://texas-speed.com/p-3927-cloyes...-bolt-cam.aspx and will be covered either way..

Thanks,

Q

 

agree with above, the adjustable setup allows you to modify valve events and / or compensate for manufacturing tolerances.

^^ I think that will be a pretty bulletproof setup. the hex-a-just units are nice - infinite adjustment on the cam gear (no pulling the crank sprocket off to make adjustments), oversize gears to take up slack, and has a torrington bearing that takes up thrust loads on the cam. i'm sure it'll be even more robust with the c5r chain on there.

one suggestion I have though is to consider running a chain dampener. trick flow makes an adapter plate that uses the lower 3 bolts of the cam retainer plate - anyway, it helps eliminate the off-throttle "chain whip" phenomenon that can cause a chain to fail. shouldn't be as pronounced with the cloyes since it doesn't have as much slack to begin with, but wouldn't hurt. http://www.trickflow.com/egnsearch.a...9&autoview=sku

 

Thanks for the information!

What started out as a few mods has turned into a complete makeover of the current engine

As far as bearings and gears, after purchasing the cloyes setup, would I need to replace any thing else under the front timing cover? I want to make sure everything is new for this rebuild.

Thanks for the tip on the dampener: I'll check that out!

Cheers,

Q

 

Here is a list off the top of my head:

oil pump
cam retainer plate (and new bolts if necessary)
cam gear bolts (ARP)
crank bolt (ARP)
front cover gasket
front crank seal
hawk tool for balancer and timing gear installation

for your heads swap, I'm assuming you're already replacing pushrods, lifters, etc.? There are also quite a lot of gaskets to change out there as well.

Good luck and post plenty of pictures.

 

Thanks,

Yea, the heads will be utilizing BT .660 springs, GM Rockers w/trunion upgrade, new pushrods, ARP head stud kit, new holly valve covers, new lifters and whatever else I can think of. I am still debating on the oil pump as the one already installed is a high flow aftermarket pump. It is, however, 10 years old so a replacement might not be a bad idea.

Q

 

I would not hesitate to replace a 10-year old oil pump.

I would also recommend:
ARP SS header studs
coolant steam vent gaskets (4x)

 

Synergy oil pump it is then

I have also already ordered two steam tube assemblies for the LS6: gonna route the rear pipe T up to the front and tie it in for a piece of mind.

 

Back when I had a"real" race car which was built for class racing and was never actually driven on the street, I ran the Cloyes hex adjust timing chains, and they worked very well. Granted it was an SBF, but still, Cloyes quality is Cloyes quality regardless of engine make. You won't go wrong with it if this is your decision.

However, recently I'm doing a budget refresh and reseal of a 1998 LS1 to put in my Mustang, and I wanted more than just an LS2 timing chain on stock sprockets, but less than a $115 Cloyes kit.

Scoggin Dickey sells p/n SD7140 which is actually a JP Performance 5618T single row roller timing chain with a torrington bearing and sprockets. I've never used JP Performance before, but the parts appear to be pretty good quality, and the price was hard to beat at $67 for the whole kit. SD also has a reusable crank bolt (SD6621) for $10 less than the ARP, which I also bought, and it also appears to be good quality. It actually looks identical to the ARP part I have seen pictures of, but I have no idea if it's made by ARP, or whoever. Take into account, I have not yet installed them, maybe in a week from now I'll be pissed (I'll reply if this is the case).

That all being said, I always ran the hex adjust on my Fords because I always figured I would need the quick change ability it offered. However in hindsight, I never changed cam timing at the race track. Never even did it once. I changed lots of other things at the track, but never cam timing. If you can settle for installing and timing the cam straight up, and then removing the cam and crank sprocket to reconfigure the intake centerline, and then setting it all up a second time, and then re-checking, and then leave it be nearly forever, you won't need the Cloyes kit, you can save $50.

Timing the valvetrain during assembly with a non Cloyes kit is about two hours of work maximum on a SBF, assuming you fumble around a bit. Install time is probably not much different on an LS based on what I've seen from disassembling my LS1. With a Cloyes kit the whole process is about 30 minutes of work on a SBF. You can decide what 1.5 hours is worth.

 

Usdmholden, I appreciate the feedback and advice.

Initially, I ordered the LS2 chain but decided to send it back. My main goal is to build a bulletproof and reliable over all system made up of proven
components. By going with the LS2 chain, I was essentially skimping on one component of the build while bulletproofing other components. After thinking about things for a while, I decided to not take a chance and go with purchasing better quality components. The difference in price between the adjustable and non adjustable cloyes setup with the C-5R chain is around 30 bucks: this is not enough to worry about imho.

Regarding components, I started out with the plan to use LS7 lifters but finally decided against it. This was, again, due to the desire to use proven and reliable engine components. I'm not saying that the ls7 lifters are not reliable. However, for the heads and cam I will be running, I felt I needed something above and beyond the ls7 lifters.

Again thanks!

Q