What does it take to run 10's or better N/A
10-14-2013, 11:26 PM
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What does it take to run 10's or better N/A So for the last couple months ive been trying to decide what to do with my budget 408 thats in my 98 Z28 M6. I have come to the conclusion that chasing dyno numbers is pointless because there is just to many variables. So what would i need to do to run 10's or better N/A. As of now the short block is fully forged with arp everything. It currently has 11.2:1 compression with LSA heads.
This car will be a aggressive street/strip application. I know that the LSA heads will have to go and i just want some suggestions on what top end i should run. I know that i am gonna need a well thought out combo to hit my goals.
As for the rest of the car i have a Strange s60 in the works but need input on all the other components that help put the power to the ground and get it to hook up.
I thank u guys for ur input and suggestions ahead of time.
This car will be a aggressive street/strip application. I know that the LSA heads will have to go and i just want some suggestions on what top end i should run. I know that i am gonna need a well thought out combo to hit my goals.
As for the rest of the car i have a Strange s60 in the works but need input on all the other components that help put the power to the ground and get it to hook up.
I thank u guys for ur input and suggestions ahead of time.
10-15-2013, 12:26 AM
#2
there are so many factors that play into this to come up with a set answer.
weight of the car?
DA?
Suspension?
Tire/gear set up?
Driver mod? (hehe)
The way my car sits (will be coming out for the first time in the spring)
texas speed 408
102intake/throttle body
100maf/104mm lid
AFR 225 heads with upgraded springs and all the goodies
23x/24x cam
kmember/upper lower a arms
built trans with 3600 converter
Stock rear end (i no i no its coming soon!!!) on a MT drag radial
Im shooting for 10.80s on motor and some low 10s on a 150 shot. thats what im looking at
weight of the car?
DA?
Suspension?
Tire/gear set up?
Driver mod? (hehe)
The way my car sits (will be coming out for the first time in the spring)
texas speed 408
102intake/throttle body
100maf/104mm lid
AFR 225 heads with upgraded springs and all the goodies
23x/24x cam
kmember/upper lower a arms
built trans with 3600 converter
Stock rear end (i no i no its coming soon!!!) on a MT drag radial
Im shooting for 10.80s on motor and some low 10s on a 150 shot. thats what im looking at
10-15-2013, 12:33 AM
#3
A very stable valvetrain for starters. You're going to have to turn some RPM's. To do it reliably you're looking at a decent investment in quality lifters.
I'd look to bump the compression considerably to around 12:1 to 13.5-1 and grind a cam to meet the needs of a head with a smaller combustion chamber and enough flow to benefit the 408. The recommendation here really depends on how much coin you have to spend.
Next is playing the lightweight game. A heavy valvetrain for an NA motor is a bad combination. As RPM demands increase, your consideration for making the valvetrain as light as possible should also come into play.
I know you said 10's, but the game is the same for all NA applications.
I'd look to bump the compression considerably to around 12:1 to 13.5-1 and grind a cam to meet the needs of a head with a smaller combustion chamber and enough flow to benefit the 408. The recommendation here really depends on how much coin you have to spend.
Next is playing the lightweight game. A heavy valvetrain for an NA motor is a bad combination. As RPM demands increase, your consideration for making the valvetrain as light as possible should also come into play.
I know you said 10's, but the game is the same for all NA applications.
10-15-2013, 02:36 AM
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there are so many factors that play into this to come up with a set answer.
weight of the car?
DA?
Suspension?
Tire/gear set up?
Driver mod? (hehe)
The way my car sits (will be coming out for the first time in the spring)
texas speed 408
102intake/throttle body
100maf/104mm lid
AFR 225 heads with upgraded springs and all the goodies
23x/24x cam
kmember/upper lower a arms
built trans with 3600 converter
Stock rear end (i no i no its coming soon!!!) on a MT drag radial
Im shooting for 10.80s on motor and some low 10s on a 150 shot. thats what im looking at
weight of the car?
DA?
Suspension?
Tire/gear set up?
Driver mod? (hehe)
The way my car sits (will be coming out for the first time in the spring)
texas speed 408
102intake/throttle body
100maf/104mm lid
AFR 225 heads with upgraded springs and all the goodies
23x/24x cam
kmember/upper lower a arms
built trans with 3600 converter
Stock rear end (i no i no its coming soon!!!) on a MT drag radial
Im shooting for 10.80s on motor and some low 10s on a 150 shot. thats what im looking at
Weight inknown
Gears either 4.10 or 4.30
Heads: all pro ls7 retro, tf 235, tf 255, AFR 230 ect
12:1 max compression trying to stay on 91 pump
Ive thought about going solid roller
Im just looking for advice on how to build it to hit my goal.
The car is stock except for the engine and exhaust so its gonna be a long list of parts but i gotta start somewhere
Last edited by Sinister_Z28; 10-15-2013 at 02:44 AM.
10-15-2013, 09:22 AM
#7
As I walked into a speed shop out in socal back in 1969 and the sign over the door said. "SPEED COST MONEY HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO". It still rings true today. Running 10s in a 3500 pound car will take a lot of $$$$$. You may not like what you have when all is said, done, and spent. Be careful what you wish for.
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10-15-2013, 04:01 PM
#8
https://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-raci...1-74-bump.html
Looks like bolt ons, high stall, very low weight and a **** load of luck. Not to mention perfect conditions and money to fix all the **** you broke.
Looks like bolt ons, high stall, very low weight and a **** load of luck. Not to mention perfect conditions and money to fix all the **** you broke.
10-15-2013, 04:33 PM
#10
Sommer's motor will get you there.
I'm shooting for 10s in my car...
3500lbs
DA will be negatives since I'm sea level on the coast. Just waiting for cool temps.
Stock LS1 w/11.8:1 CR, Flycut pistons, ARP Rod Bolts
TEA Stage 2 243s with LS3 hollow-stem intake valves & shimmed PAC 1904 Springs
EPS 234/242 .600"/.600" 111+3 Cam
Johnson Short-Travel Hyd Lifters (looking to turn 7400 or so)
Kooks 1-7/8" Headers & 3" True Duals
Ported FAST 102 & 102 TB
CircleD 4200 Stall & Built FLT Level 6 Trans
4.10 Rearend
BMR and Founders Suspension Parts (Adj PHB, LCAs, Adj TA)
Viking Coilovers
26" MT DRs
I would hope mid to high 10s with that setup. If I could get weight out of the car, I would think low 10s.
I'm shooting for 10s in my car...
3500lbs
DA will be negatives since I'm sea level on the coast. Just waiting for cool temps.
Stock LS1 w/11.8:1 CR, Flycut pistons, ARP Rod Bolts
TEA Stage 2 243s with LS3 hollow-stem intake valves & shimmed PAC 1904 Springs
EPS 234/242 .600"/.600" 111+3 Cam
Johnson Short-Travel Hyd Lifters (looking to turn 7400 or so)
Kooks 1-7/8" Headers & 3" True Duals
Ported FAST 102 & 102 TB
CircleD 4200 Stall & Built FLT Level 6 Trans
4.10 Rearend
BMR and Founders Suspension Parts (Adj PHB, LCAs, Adj TA)
Viking Coilovers
26" MT DRs
I would hope mid to high 10s with that setup. If I could get weight out of the car, I would think low 10s.
10-15-2013, 05:16 PM
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-raci...1-74-bump.html
Looks like bolt ons, high stall, very low weight and a **** load of luck. Not to mention perfect conditions and money to fix all the **** you broke.
Looks like bolt ons, high stall, very low weight and a **** load of luck. Not to mention perfect conditions and money to fix all the **** you broke.
I came within a tenth of doing it but got impatient with bolt ons lol
10-15-2013, 06:44 PM
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Alright so apparently my car need to lose some weight. How much weight can i take out by doing like a tubular member, A/C delete, rear seats and seat belts removed.
10-15-2013, 09:14 PM
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I looked at the list of fastest stock internal ls1/ls6 and saw some 3600lbs cars running in the 11's so i figure a 3500lb m6 car with a built for should get me 10's what do u guys think
10-15-2013, 09:49 PM
#15
LOL @ stroker motors shooting for 10s. If you're stroker territory, you should be shooting for 9s.
NO need to delete AC for 10s. No need for tubular everyting for 10s. NO need for 12 bolt, 9" or any of that for 10s. There are MANY builds with stock bottom end ls1's in the 10s.
Our shop car is an 02 camaro full interior (no back seats), nothing else removed, honestly.
LS1 Stock bottom end, Advanced Induction 227cc heads, 'El Toro' 230/230 cam, Fast 102, FTP Lid, FTI 4000 stall, Built 4l60e, STOCK 10bolt with 3.73. MWC torque arm, stock wheels, Hoosier 275 rears.
Went 11.00@122 3400 track weight with driver. Mind you this is in Arizona **** air, **** gas. DA was 2000. With less weight and a better track location, theres 10s no doubt about it.
NO need to delete AC for 10s. No need for tubular everyting for 10s. NO need for 12 bolt, 9" or any of that for 10s. There are MANY builds with stock bottom end ls1's in the 10s.
Our shop car is an 02 camaro full interior (no back seats), nothing else removed, honestly.
LS1 Stock bottom end, Advanced Induction 227cc heads, 'El Toro' 230/230 cam, Fast 102, FTP Lid, FTI 4000 stall, Built 4l60e, STOCK 10bolt with 3.73. MWC torque arm, stock wheels, Hoosier 275 rears.
Went 11.00@122 3400 track weight with driver. Mind you this is in Arizona **** air, **** gas. DA was 2000. With less weight and a better track location, theres 10s no doubt about it.
10-15-2013, 11:19 PM
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10s isn't that hard for an auto but a little tougher in a m6. With afr 230s or tfs 235s on a 408 it shouldn't be too hard...even at full weight. The only problem with a m6 is that most people don't realized much they suck at racing one...lol. I've saw guys with all the high dollar parts and even FI still have a hard time getting into the 10s.
10-15-2013, 11:24 PM
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LOL @ stroker motors shooting for 10s. If you're stroker territory, you should be shooting for 9s.
NO need to delete AC for 10s. No need for tubular everyting for 10s. NO need for 12 bolt, 9" or any of that for 10s. There are MANY builds with stock bottom end ls1's in the 10s.
Our shop car is an 02 camaro full interior (no back seats), nothing else removed, honestly.
LS1 Stock bottom end, Advanced Induction 227cc heads, 'El Toro' 230/230 cam, Fast 102, FTP Lid, FTI 4000 stall, Built 4l60e, STOCK 10bolt with 3.73. MWC torque arm, stock wheels, Hoosier 275 rears.
Went 11.00@122 3400 track weight with driver. Mind you this is in Arizona **** air, **** gas. DA was 2000. With less weight and a better track location, theres 10s no doubt about it.
NO need to delete AC for 10s. No need for tubular everyting for 10s. NO need for 12 bolt, 9" or any of that for 10s. There are MANY builds with stock bottom end ls1's in the 10s.
Our shop car is an 02 camaro full interior (no back seats), nothing else removed, honestly.
LS1 Stock bottom end, Advanced Induction 227cc heads, 'El Toro' 230/230 cam, Fast 102, FTP Lid, FTI 4000 stall, Built 4l60e, STOCK 10bolt with 3.73. MWC torque arm, stock wheels, Hoosier 275 rears.
Went 11.00@122 3400 track weight with driver. Mind you this is in Arizona **** air, **** gas. DA was 2000. With less weight and a better track location, theres 10s no doubt about it.
10-16-2013, 08:27 PM
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Thats good to know. I would imagine DA would be close to zero around my neck of the woods. Now im trying to keep this as a street/strip car so i dont want to get to extreme. Now what heads would be the best for this car. Also its a M6 car so i know that has to factor in.
10-16-2013, 08:33 PM
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LOL @ stroker motors shooting for 10s. If you're stroker territory, you should be shooting for 9s.
NO need to delete AC for 10s. No need for tubular everyting for 10s. NO need for 12 bolt, 9" or any of that for 10s. There are MANY builds with stock bottom end ls1's in the 10s.
Our shop car is an 02 camaro full interior (no back seats), nothing else removed, honestly.
LS1 Stock bottom end, Advanced Induction 227cc heads, 'El Toro' 230/230 cam, Fast 102, FTP Lid, FTI 4000 stall, Built 4l60e, STOCK 10bolt with 3.73. MWC torque arm, stock wheels, Hoosier 275 rears.
Went 11.00@122 3400 track weight with driver. Mind you this is in Arizona **** air, **** gas. DA was 2000. With less weight and a better track location, theres 10s no doubt about it.
NO need to delete AC for 10s. No need for tubular everyting for 10s. NO need for 12 bolt, 9" or any of that for 10s. There are MANY builds with stock bottom end ls1's in the 10s.
Our shop car is an 02 camaro full interior (no back seats), nothing else removed, honestly.
LS1 Stock bottom end, Advanced Induction 227cc heads, 'El Toro' 230/230 cam, Fast 102, FTP Lid, FTI 4000 stall, Built 4l60e, STOCK 10bolt with 3.73. MWC torque arm, stock wheels, Hoosier 275 rears.
Went 11.00@122 3400 track weight with driver. Mind you this is in Arizona **** air, **** gas. DA was 2000. With less weight and a better track location, theres 10s no doubt about it.
