I seen a few threads recently on milling,quench,and gaskets and I'm kinda confused in which way to go to get compression. I'm doing a short block now with flat tops and valve reliefs with a set of tfs215's. The heads currently have stock 64cc chambers. I want to have around 11-11.5 compression for the 93 octane gas we have around here. Can I run a stock .051 gasket and mill the heads? If so how much would be required to be cut? Or is there another way that's a lot better to do? Will be running a ms4 cam also. Thanks for your help

Jimmy

 

Valve reliefs looks like there gonna be a -3.2 cc on a 3.093 bore.

 

Jimmy, yes you can run a stock head gasket, but I'd consider a couple of things before diving in. First, if it was me, I'd run a different cam. The MS4 is a strong performer, but today there are better lobes that can produce the same, if not better performance while also being easier and quieter on/in your valvetrain. Personally, I'd get w/ Ed Curtis, Martin Smallwood (aka Martin@Tick), or Pat G, explain your goals and componentry and let them spec you a cam.

Next again, personally I'd do both mill and quench to get your compression! I'd run a cometic .045 or .040 head gasket and mill your heads to 60 or 59cc, which would be 25-30 thousandths. This will get you the compression you want; and running a big stick like you want to run, compression is your friend! It'll calm down how rowdy the cam will make your cars drivability. Again, I'd prevy this by saying talk w/ one of the 3 cam gurus mentioned above before diving in on this so they can spec your cam and help guide you on this. The heads and cam work in such a tandem that they need to be spec'd basically together for the best results.

 

Thanks for your advise. I had a ms3 in my stock long block before and really liked it. I already have the brand new ms4 and really dot want to buy another cam if I don't have to.

 

Sent Martin a email to see what he has to say about the cam.

 

Ok so If I have .025 cut off the heads it should put them around 60cc form the 64cc I think. Then which gasket should I do? .040 or .045 since the extra .005 is almost another point of compression.The pistons have -3.2 cc reliefs. Just trying to get the compression where I want it and have proper quench too.

 

Jimmy, you have a good build going, and I wouldn't let an already picked out camshaft be the rock of Gibraltar to build around. Your heads should be the building block to build around. Think of it this way, which do you have more invested in? I can bet Martin will guide you another way with the cam, and honestly, that's a good thing. Make sure to give him all the specs on the engine, and the heads. He knows TFS 215's well, but he'll need to know springs, guide type, rockers you're going to run and what valves they're running.

IMO, the head gasket thickness should be determined by how far out of the whole your pistons come out. You don't want to be too tight (like tighter than .035), so look at your bottom end build specs and see how far out of the hole they come. Most seem to come out .005ish which would make the .040 perfect. Now, if they come out of the hole more, than the .045 gasket would be more desirable.

 

I sent him a email Friday morning but haven't heard anything from him. Im not opposed to a new can at all. I just thought it would work well with the stockish cubes and stuff. We haven't got the motor together yet. Stock crank and 6.125 rods on the wiesco flat tops is what I'm using. H/s rockers and morel link bar lifters. Heads have 2.04/1.575 valves and bronze guides. Just ordered btr .660 springs.

 

If you decide to go with another cam I might be interested in buying the MS4. I have some PRC 215's for another project I think would go great with that cam.

 

I'm guessing straight stainless steel valves? Any idea of valve spring rates open/closed?

Also, give Martin a call at Tick. He'll get you taken care of. Don't feel slighted, when I contacted him through email it took him a couple of days to get back to me. Calling will get you handled that day.p though.

 

I'll let you know if I go with something different.

 

Heres the specs on the springs...660" Lift Dual Polished Springs, these are a perfect upgrade to standard "Gold" springs and fit most aftermarket LS spring components. Spring specs are 155 lbs @ 1.780", 380 lbs @ 1.180", 400 lbs @ 1.130, coild bind @ 1.070"

 

I talked with Martin today for a good while. I think I'm gonna go with his specd out cam.

 

Thought that might be the case. Pretty knowledgable guy!

 

Ordered a cam from Martin this morning. He ended up redoing the cam after we talked and he looked things over again. Also gonna have .030 milled off the heads with a .040 gasket. Hope it runs good.

 

With respects to quench, what is your block material. Sorry...I didn't catch it if you posted it. I like the .040 quench that 427zm described. My only concern is how you arrive at this. Are you milling the block? Stock deck height is normally .005" out of the hole. You have to account for that. And remember that aluminum blocks expand more than iron. I still feel like .040 quench would be safe but don't forget to consider where your deck height is. Nothing like having a piston slapping the head because you didn't do your math. Ask me how I know.....

 

As of tight now we hadn't planned on decking the block. It was also recommended from another on here that I spoke with yesterday to do it this way. Will check before ordering gaskets.

 

It was great talking with you. Thank you for your business.

 

Took the heads to the machine shop and am having him take .030 off them to get around 59 cc chamber. HE also decked the block to get it perfectly flat. Like .002'' off. So now Ill have to decide on the gasket once we see how far out the piston is from the block. Most people are recommending .040 still. And I got the new Martin spec'd cam yesterday too. I hope this thing makes some god power.

 

Sounds good

FWIW, I plan on running a .032" quench on a similar setup to you - cleaned up deck, .040" gaskets, 58cc chambers. My pistons were .007-.008" out of hole. Unfortunately I haven't fired up yet so I couldn't tell you if the pistons have made friends with the heads yet.