ape 427 vs. modding 346........
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From: detroit rock city
ape 427 vs. modding 346........ I've been on this board for a couple of months now trying to soak up anything i can about everything on the awsome ls1 engine and all things 4th gen camaro......i bought a 98 z28 a month or so ago, and it's a blast. eventually, i want to have an all motor street monster, one that is fairly reliable but breathes fire.....i'll go to the track and whatnot, but i'm the type who thinks that nascar should really run STOCK cars, and any car i have is going to need to be able to drive the hour plus to milan dragway and back, and take me to work and back 3 or 4 times a week......i was pretty stoked when i checked out APE's website and saw that i was living almost within walking distance to their shop, and from everything i've been reading here, they seem to give great customer service and build awsome engines. my brother-in-law was talking to me the other day and told me "well, if your gonna go big, just save up and do it right the first time" he's learned from experience, and if you want to see what he means by big , check the first pic on this page out: http://www.cardomain.com/id/twinturbo408rt
anyways,this is where my question comes in: should i go the easy route, be impatient, stick with the 346 and do all the bolts ons, cam heads and ect., or do i bide my time, save up my pennys, and get an ape 427? keeping in mind that i'm not spending every dime i have on the car, and that i'd be able to to do more in less time with the engine now, as opposed to waiting for my "dream" engine......thanks to all who took the time to read this, especially to those who could help with some of their own 2 cents and experiences.....
anyways,this is where my question comes in: should i go the easy route, be impatient, stick with the 346 and do all the bolts ons, cam heads and ect., or do i bide my time, save up my pennys, and get an ape 427? keeping in mind that i'm not spending every dime i have on the car, and that i'd be able to to do more in less time with the engine now, as opposed to waiting for my "dream" engine......thanks to all who took the time to read this, especially to those who could help with some of their own 2 cents and experiences.....
Have a plan, save, then buy, to avoid buying a part that you will only sell later and then lose money. If your doing a 427, you will need Good heads, 6.0 or LS6 heads that can flow. Its going to be expensive. Because of the cost, i woulnt buy anything until you had the money to finish the project, as we all know, **** happens. GL, APE will build you a beast up there im sure.
The Bull
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
Horsepower is an addiction. You'll never get enough. If you only want to spend your money one time I'd save it up and go big, get it done with. The other route will certainly let you learn a lot more as you get there. Just depends on what you want to get out of it when you're done. Good luck!
A 427 street setup vs a stout 346 street setup is no comparison. The 427 will murder the 346 (built adn all bolt-ons) in every regard:
-streetability
-HP/TQ
-reliability
However, a well done 427 will run near $13,000 uninstalled and no tuning.
-streetability
-HP/TQ
-reliability
However, a well done 427 will run near $13,000 uninstalled and no tuning.
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From: Kansas City, MO
If you can afford it, go with the 427CID without a doubt. There is no comparison between the power and drivability of a 427CID and a 346CID.
As Levi stated, you will have to have a deep wallet.
I went with a solid roller 408 for roughly the same cost as a 427 hydraulic. It all depends on purpose and your budget.
As Levi stated, you will have to have a deep wallet.
I went with a solid roller 408 for roughly the same cost as a 427 hydraulic. It all depends on purpose and your budget.
Trending Topics
Our complete wet sleeve 427 long block is only 11,999.99
It includes: WET SLEEVE LS6 BLOCK (NO CORE REQUIRED)
CALLIES 4.000" STROKE FORGED CRANKSHAFT
CALLIES LS1 FORGED H BEAM RODS (LS1 SPECIFIC)
DIAMOND FORGED PISTONS (#11522)
DIAMOND 4130 CHROMEMOLY WRIST PINS
DIAMOND PROSELECT RING SET (FILE FIT)
FEDERAL MOGUL MAIN BEARINGS (152M)
CLEVITE CONNECTING ROD BEARINGS (CB663H)
ARP MAIN STUDS
ARP HEAD STUDS
PORTED & PREPPED OIL PUMP
CLOYES ADJUSTABLE TIMING CHAIN SET
COMP CAM HYD ROLLER CAM
GM HYD ROLLER LIFTERS W/HOLDERS
TREND CHROMEMOLY PUSHRODS
YELLA TERRA ROCKER ARMS
APE STAGE II LS6 CYLINDER HEADS (NO CORES NEEDED)
FEL PRO HEAD GASKETS
Buy it today and ill cut the same 200 that the short block gp guys are getting.
Please give us a call and ask for Brian.
Thank you
It includes: WET SLEEVE LS6 BLOCK (NO CORE REQUIRED)
CALLIES 4.000" STROKE FORGED CRANKSHAFT
CALLIES LS1 FORGED H BEAM RODS (LS1 SPECIFIC)
DIAMOND FORGED PISTONS (#11522)
DIAMOND 4130 CHROMEMOLY WRIST PINS
DIAMOND PROSELECT RING SET (FILE FIT)
FEDERAL MOGUL MAIN BEARINGS (152M)
CLEVITE CONNECTING ROD BEARINGS (CB663H)
ARP MAIN STUDS
ARP HEAD STUDS
PORTED & PREPPED OIL PUMP
CLOYES ADJUSTABLE TIMING CHAIN SET
COMP CAM HYD ROLLER CAM
GM HYD ROLLER LIFTERS W/HOLDERS
TREND CHROMEMOLY PUSHRODS
YELLA TERRA ROCKER ARMS
APE STAGE II LS6 CYLINDER HEADS (NO CORES NEEDED)
FEL PRO HEAD GASKETS
Buy it today and ill cut the same 200 that the short block gp guys are getting.
Please give us a call and ask for Brian.
Thank you
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
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From: detroit rock city
yeah, i understand the 427 vs. 346 isn't really a contest, i guess i'm just trying to talk myself into the patience part. all you guys are saying the same thing my brother in law told me.....he's gone from a being into a his supercharged r/t to now build a twin turbo 408 for it and then everything in between......all that is expensive, but then again it's part of the hobby.....the learning and the fun or frustration of doing the stuff yourself....but on these engines any mistake could be so costly......can you tell i'm talking to myself in my head now? 
maybe i'll be patient with the camaro and try working on the electra myself.......cuz buicks are so cheap to work on.......
maybe i'll be patient with the camaro and try working on the electra myself.......cuz buicks are so cheap to work on....... Thread Starter
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From: detroit rock city
If i had 12 grand in my wallet right now you'd see me in about 5 minutes! i was bored the other day and figured i'd drive back into the industrial park to try to see where your shop was......i'm guessing it was the place with all the burnout tracks in front of it, along with a half dozen or so f-bodys and a fewe vettes parked out front? yeah, i've heard you guys are great to work with, perhaps i'll have to find out for myself.....would it be cool if i just stopped by to check it out sometime?
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From: Greensboro, North Carolina
Originally Posted by Brian@AP-Engineering
Our complete wet sleeve 427 long block is only 11,999.99
It includes: WET SLEEVE LS6 BLOCK (NO CORE REQUIRED)
CALLIES 4.000" STROKE FORGED CRANKSHAFT
CALLIES LS1 FORGED H BEAM RODS (LS1 SPECIFIC)
DIAMOND FORGED PISTONS (#11522)
DIAMOND 4130 CHROMEMOLY WRIST PINS
DIAMOND PROSELECT RING SET (FILE FIT)
FEDERAL MOGUL MAIN BEARINGS (152M)
CLEVITE CONNECTING ROD BEARINGS (CB663H)
ARP MAIN STUDS
ARP HEAD STUDS
PORTED & PREPPED OIL PUMP
CLOYES ADJUSTABLE TIMING CHAIN SET
COMP CAM HYD ROLLER CAM
GM HYD ROLLER LIFTERS W/HOLDERS
TREND CHROMEMOLY PUSHRODS
YELLA TERRA ROCKER ARMS
APE STAGE II LS6 CYLINDER HEADS (NO CORES NEEDED)
FEL PRO HEAD GASKETS
Buy it today and ill cut the same 200 that the short block gp guys are getting.
Please give us a call and ask for Brian.
Thank you
It includes: WET SLEEVE LS6 BLOCK (NO CORE REQUIRED)
CALLIES 4.000" STROKE FORGED CRANKSHAFT
CALLIES LS1 FORGED H BEAM RODS (LS1 SPECIFIC)
DIAMOND FORGED PISTONS (#11522)
DIAMOND 4130 CHROMEMOLY WRIST PINS
DIAMOND PROSELECT RING SET (FILE FIT)
FEDERAL MOGUL MAIN BEARINGS (152M)
CLEVITE CONNECTING ROD BEARINGS (CB663H)
ARP MAIN STUDS
ARP HEAD STUDS
PORTED & PREPPED OIL PUMP
CLOYES ADJUSTABLE TIMING CHAIN SET
COMP CAM HYD ROLLER CAM
GM HYD ROLLER LIFTERS W/HOLDERS
TREND CHROMEMOLY PUSHRODS
YELLA TERRA ROCKER ARMS
APE STAGE II LS6 CYLINDER HEADS (NO CORES NEEDED)
FEL PRO HEAD GASKETS
Buy it today and ill cut the same 200 that the short block gp guys are getting.
Please give us a call and ask for Brian.
Thank you
Please feel free to stop by and check out the shop. We have a vette in the shop right now getting a 427 that we built put in it. Dyno numbers are just a few weeks away. If you have any questions just let me know.
Thanks
Thanks
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From: detroit rock city
Originally Posted by hourang
maan, i better watch out for that dakota, thats 
i would build the rest of the car up before you throw a motor like that in it.
i would build the rest of the car up before you throw a motor like that in it. Thread Starter
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From: detroit rock city
Originally Posted by Chris@AP-Engineering
Please feel free to stop by and check out the shop. We have a vette in the shop right now getting a 427 that we built put in it. Dyno numbers are just a few weeks away. If you have any questions just let me know.
Thanks
Thanks
Originally Posted by jdustu
yeah, i understand that.......it's already got a lot of suspension stuff done(welded sfcs, adj panhard, kyb shocks, eibach springs, ect.) it's in a4 with 3.73 auburn diff, ta girdle; i'll pry go to dts and get a 12 bolt.....i know al the dominoes that start to fall, but that would happen no matter which way i started adding power......yeah, that dakota is gonna be insane.....it's in the final stages of completion......he's hoping for ten's in a 4k lbs plus truck......he'll get the hp, the traction will be fun.....
Unfortunatly for me i have to mod the current motor...I've never had much luck in trying to pull/install my own motors so just doing a big inch motor and getting it in would cost $$$ which as a father & husband just aint happnin on my pay 
for a $12k motor like ap's it would take me about 4 years to save for that so I'll do mods a grand or two at a time cuz i just cant wait for speed & taking out a loan on top of a car loan isnt feasible nor wise IMO no offense to those who've done it. But then your young & maybe have a good enough job & no GF that it would only take you a year to save that $ for me though it just wouldnt work in the end unless I want to start on a project that will be obsolite in the 4-5 years it would take for me to build it hehe.
for a $12k motor like ap's it would take me about 4 years to save for that so I'll do mods a grand or two at a time cuz i just cant wait for speed & taking out a loan on top of a car loan isnt feasible nor wise IMO no offense to those who've done it. But then your young & maybe have a good enough job & no GF that it would only take you a year to save that $ for me though it just wouldnt work in the end unless I want to start on a project that will be obsolite in the 4-5 years it would take for me to build it hehe.