Ms4
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Lake Hopatcong,New Jersey
Ms4 Was looking into the MS4 cam & was wondering what I should be replacing to prevent casualties with my stock ls1. Pushrods?Lifters?Springs?etc. What gains are seen also? Should i worry about my stock M6 trans?
This is my own opinion. I'm very cautious when putting something in my car.. Anyway, here is what I would do if I were to run an MS4 and to run it right.....
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VALVETRAIN:
*Brian Tooley Dual Valve Springs
-They have 0 failures. Period. That and they are proven performers. Do note that due to the high lift of this cam, you will need to replace your valve springs often. Do not forget this. A lot of people have done this and ended up having a piston kiss a valve. New engine time after that happens..
*Trunion Upgrade Rocker Arms
-With such a high lift on your cam, you will want a little more insurance than your stock rocker arms. Especially since you will be revving your engine to 7000+ RPM's. Simply upgrade your stock rockers to the trunion. Very proven time and time again, and makes for a LIGHT valvetrain compared to going the aftermarket rocker arm route.
*Lifters
-Read on this on tech. This is one of your more critical investments. Look to spend around 500 bucks for lifters to run with this cam. I PERSONALLY would recommend the top end Johnson Link Bar lifters. Let's put it like this.. you rev your engine to 7000, develop valve float, one of your lifters aren't bleeding off properly, then BAM piston kisses a valve. Time for a new engine at this point.
*Pistons
Flycutting the pistons. Yes, this cam will clear without flycutting. From what I've read, it's around .06 clearance on both intake and exhaust valves. Cool, right? Safe margins are typically .080/.100. Yes, it will clear, however the MS4 LOVES compression. You will have the heads out, why not spend the 2 or so hours flycutting your pistons AND GAIN BOTH USEABLE POWER AND PEAK HORSEPOWER? There are how-to's on tech, should check them out.
*Heads
The MS4 has a ton of potential. Upgrade the heads. You can do a little and get a lot in return. 243 casting heads go a long way (should run around 400 bucks used). There are also many vendors on tech that can also port these to get you even more gain.
*Pushrods
Get hardened pushrods. DO NOT PURCHASE THESE UNTIL THE CAM AND HEADS ARE INSTALLED. You want to get the absolute accurate measurement for your pushrods. Failing to do so can lead to major failure with your engine.
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FRONT END:
*A new timing chain is in store. I personally went with an LS2 timing chain. Since your cam is so large, I'd recommend going a different route. Go with an adjustable dual timing chain. This will allow for you to degree your cam, which will be critical when you install your cam.
*A new oil pump is in store. If you go with a dual timing chain, you will need to find an oil pump that clears the timing chain.
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Transmission question.
IMHO, you will eventually need to upgrade your transmission. I personally had 180k on my car and produced 370whp/386rwtq with my build and soon after my transmission took a dump. However, my transmission was a '98 model, which is not nearly as great as the later year T-56 transmissions. Do yourself a favor and if things start going loopy with your transmission, get it rebuilt ASAP. You can always wait, but when it breaks and you have to spend 2500 bucks (not including clutch/flywheel) because everything in it is toast, you will be banging your head like I did. A Tick Performance rebuild is around 1500 bucks if you're just upgrade the internals. That extra 1000 could go to other parts on your car : )
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Gears.
Be sure to get some 4.10's. Although not 100% insurance, the TA girdle cover does help some from keeping your rearend from breaking as quick. The 10 bolts are POS. Down the road you will probably want to change this out.
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Exhaust.
Obviously you need longtube headers. IMHO, cut-outs are nice because these big cams do not like backpressure. When doing this setup, your initial dig will be slower, but your higher end power will be more noticeable. I have dual cut-outs on mine, twelve inches after the header. Be sure to not go any less than 12 inches from your header. Doing so will cause your o2's to foul out.
NOTE: If you have not done your headers yet, be sure to upgrade the engine mounts. Most likely your engine mounts are sagging if you have high miles, and your headers will probably hit if you fail to change your engine mounts out. Polyurethane engine mounts are great for a daily driver. However, if you choose to go solid mounts, be absolutely sure to upgrade your transmission mount to polyurethane.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intake.
Make sure that you are running an LS6 intake or something better, such as a FAST intake. An LS1 intake will simply choke your cam in the upper RPM's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fuel injectors.
These will need to be upgraded. You WILL be running above a safe duty cycle with this cam. Do NOT skimp out on this.
*****************
In conclusion: Lot of money for a cam like this. It just takes a lot to make it run like it should. This is what TSP calls a "max effort cam."
LS6 Intake/MS4 typically nets 420whp
LS6 Intake/MS4/ 243 heads typically nets 440 whp
LS6 Intake/MS4/ 243 heads/Fast92 Intake typically net around 450+whp
Good luck. I've researched the hell out of this cam. Yes, this is a lot of money and work. If you do this right, doing all of this work will be WELL WORTH all of the time and money invested in your car. This cam pulls like a mother...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VALVETRAIN:
*Brian Tooley Dual Valve Springs
-They have 0 failures. Period. That and they are proven performers. Do note that due to the high lift of this cam, you will need to replace your valve springs often. Do not forget this. A lot of people have done this and ended up having a piston kiss a valve. New engine time after that happens..
*Trunion Upgrade Rocker Arms
-With such a high lift on your cam, you will want a little more insurance than your stock rocker arms. Especially since you will be revving your engine to 7000+ RPM's. Simply upgrade your stock rockers to the trunion. Very proven time and time again, and makes for a LIGHT valvetrain compared to going the aftermarket rocker arm route.
*Lifters
-Read on this on tech. This is one of your more critical investments. Look to spend around 500 bucks for lifters to run with this cam. I PERSONALLY would recommend the top end Johnson Link Bar lifters. Let's put it like this.. you rev your engine to 7000, develop valve float, one of your lifters aren't bleeding off properly, then BAM piston kisses a valve. Time for a new engine at this point.
*Pistons
Flycutting the pistons. Yes, this cam will clear without flycutting. From what I've read, it's around .06 clearance on both intake and exhaust valves. Cool, right? Safe margins are typically .080/.100. Yes, it will clear, however the MS4 LOVES compression. You will have the heads out, why not spend the 2 or so hours flycutting your pistons AND GAIN BOTH USEABLE POWER AND PEAK HORSEPOWER? There are how-to's on tech, should check them out.
*Heads
The MS4 has a ton of potential. Upgrade the heads. You can do a little and get a lot in return. 243 casting heads go a long way (should run around 400 bucks used). There are also many vendors on tech that can also port these to get you even more gain.
*Pushrods
Get hardened pushrods. DO NOT PURCHASE THESE UNTIL THE CAM AND HEADS ARE INSTALLED. You want to get the absolute accurate measurement for your pushrods. Failing to do so can lead to major failure with your engine.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FRONT END:
*A new timing chain is in store. I personally went with an LS2 timing chain. Since your cam is so large, I'd recommend going a different route. Go with an adjustable dual timing chain. This will allow for you to degree your cam, which will be critical when you install your cam.
*A new oil pump is in store. If you go with a dual timing chain, you will need to find an oil pump that clears the timing chain.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmission question.
IMHO, you will eventually need to upgrade your transmission. I personally had 180k on my car and produced 370whp/386rwtq with my build and soon after my transmission took a dump. However, my transmission was a '98 model, which is not nearly as great as the later year T-56 transmissions. Do yourself a favor and if things start going loopy with your transmission, get it rebuilt ASAP. You can always wait, but when it breaks and you have to spend 2500 bucks (not including clutch/flywheel) because everything in it is toast, you will be banging your head like I did. A Tick Performance rebuild is around 1500 bucks if you're just upgrade the internals. That extra 1000 could go to other parts on your car : )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gears.
Be sure to get some 4.10's. Although not 100% insurance, the TA girdle cover does help some from keeping your rearend from breaking as quick. The 10 bolts are POS. Down the road you will probably want to change this out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exhaust.
Obviously you need longtube headers. IMHO, cut-outs are nice because these big cams do not like backpressure. When doing this setup, your initial dig will be slower, but your higher end power will be more noticeable. I have dual cut-outs on mine, twelve inches after the header. Be sure to not go any less than 12 inches from your header. Doing so will cause your o2's to foul out.
NOTE: If you have not done your headers yet, be sure to upgrade the engine mounts. Most likely your engine mounts are sagging if you have high miles, and your headers will probably hit if you fail to change your engine mounts out. Polyurethane engine mounts are great for a daily driver. However, if you choose to go solid mounts, be absolutely sure to upgrade your transmission mount to polyurethane.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intake.
Make sure that you are running an LS6 intake or something better, such as a FAST intake. An LS1 intake will simply choke your cam in the upper RPM's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fuel injectors.
These will need to be upgraded. You WILL be running above a safe duty cycle with this cam. Do NOT skimp out on this.
*****************
In conclusion: Lot of money for a cam like this. It just takes a lot to make it run like it should. This is what TSP calls a "max effort cam."
LS6 Intake/MS4 typically nets 420whp
LS6 Intake/MS4/ 243 heads typically nets 440 whp
LS6 Intake/MS4/ 243 heads/Fast92 Intake typically net around 450+whp
Good luck. I've researched the hell out of this cam. Yes, this is a lot of money and work. If you do this right, doing all of this work will be WELL WORTH all of the time and money invested in your car. This cam pulls like a mother...
