Okay so im debating what heads to get for my boosted 347.

Setup is a forged 347 with an f1a and a custom cam from eps once i get my heads picked out.

Must be stock rocker friendly with trunions. I was running trickflow 225s on my 383 and it was a bitch to get everything perfect with roller rockers. Also must be an aftermarket casting with a 3/4 deck. Id also like to get light weight hollow valves in it and have someone touch them up after i buy them either by tooley or frankenstein. What do you guys suggest?

 

Tony Mamo MMS220s MAMOFIED LOL!

 

I second that motion.....LOL

OP.....seriously in reading the first sentence or two of your thread you all but spelled my name and than pronounced it wrong

MMS 220's....my latest and greatest design endeavor in a cathedral port head with the right cross section and size, aimed squarely at a stock displacement 346-364 CID build. This is what I had my sights on from the very beginning of this project. They are killer out of the box but of course go a little better if I perfect and hand finish them (budget permitting).

Some pics of the first "Mamofied" 220's that I shipped early this week










I will be posting a thread about these heads shortly....they are available now....you just have to to deal with the typical lead time the busiest time of the years always brings (4-5 weeks or so) although I have a set of Mamofied castings that are actually available now....they were going on my own 347 I plan to hit the dyno with soon but I'm not finished with the engine yet and would be willing to let them go and simply replace them. I had an extra set of out of the box 220's but they were recently spoken for.

Anyway....I really feel this head is exactly what your after....PM or email me and we can pick it up from there (email preferred).

Cheers,
Tony

 

I talked to mamo about those but they are crazy expensive. A decent amount more than trickflows and afrs with the extra hand porting and lightweight valves. I know you get what you pay for but i could always turn up the boost a pound or two and to compensate for the lose of not having those heads. For a 347 with f1a i dont need the best. If i was doing a 1000 hp 418 with f-1r id want every little bit i could get out of it i would deffinatly get something like that.

Im thinking standard prc 227s or talking to tooley to set me up some trickflows

 

You would expect them to be a decent amount more when you add $44 valves and hours spent hand blending the heads.....LOL A similarly equipped AFR would be no different.

This head is priced $185 more than an AFR 215 and $50 more than an AFR 230, but flows more than both (substantially more than an out of the box 215) on the small bore they are optimally designed for. Not to mention the execution of the chamber transitions and bowl transitions warrant that money alone besides the upgrade in port design and higher efficiency with the 2.055 valve (230 has a 2.080).

OP.....you should consider these heads out of the box and just add the hollow intake valves.....they are really good in out of the box trim.....better in fact than a much higher priced Mamofied 215 and the results of that head has been already documented (both independent and builds I have had my hands in). My goal with the 220's all along was to produce a head that in out of the box trim would be on par with the (more expensive) hand finished optimized AFR 215's I have done in the past but its actually a touch better which I was thrilled with.

Just wanted to clear some things up regarding pricing and what your getting for your money relative to things you can relate to and that said, I'm not going to derail or muck up your thread any further. For any of you reading interested in my new 220's please take it to PM/email or wait to post in my thread about the product which I hope to launch in the next day or two.

I wish you the best no matter what direction you choose to go. There is lots of good product and choices out there....if you have further interest in pursuing mine you know where to find me.

Regards,
Tony

 

im seeing a $350 difference from out of the box 215s to your out of the box heads with the price you pmed me last week. unless you made a typo in your pm im not seeing a 185 price difference. like i said i know you get what you pay for you have the best heads out there.. your out of the box heads i can swing in the budget but for the valves and the extra hand porting puts me way out of the budget. for the valves and extra hand porting i could also get that with different heads cheaper.

again i am not bashing your heads in anyway quite frankly they are the best but my goal is 750 wheel and a low 10 second high 9 second car. i dont need to spend that crazy money to get them. all i want is an aftermarket deck that i can use stock rockers. if i was going to try and get every little bit out of a crazy setup like a 418 f1-r that i will be building soon to. than yes of coarse i will be doing all that and contacting you. but for this setup and my goals i dont see the need in spending that much more money.

 

Only stepping back in this thread for clarity's sake....LOL

My new 220's are $2650 completely assembled with a Ti retainer and an AFR 8017 spring (145-150 on the seat). The AFR 215 with the same hardware is $2465 and the AFR 230 is $2600 ($2598). In my quote to you I'm pretty sure I added the cc and milling as well as the upgrade to the 8019 spring which is what made the price look a little higher.

Before I depart I'm just going to say this.....heads are the cornerstone/foundation of every build.....its an extremely smart place to spend a little more money. At the end of the day everyone (most everyone) has a budget to adhere to and that's why its good that you have alot of choices, but the first two sentences I started this paragraph off with couldn't be more true. I've built alot of engines in my day and the first one I built with a really killer set of heads ran circles around anything I had built before. It was night and day and it really opened my eyes to how important they were (and what lead me to ultimately invest alot of time and money building a flowbench....the same bench I still use to this day).

SStessin...come over to the dark side.....LOL

PM me....let me price something up for you with an out of the box 220 and a light intake valve.



Cheers,
Tony

 

I couldn't agree with you more on there Tony regarding naturally aspirated setups. However, this being a boosted setup I would imagine it's a bit different especially considering the OP's goal is a modest 750 rear wheel.

Let me take a step back and return to your quote of saying that a properly headed setup ran circles around the others.

Theoretically speaking, say you had a 750rwhp engine pushing 14lbs of boost running your maxxed out 220s and then you had another similar engine also making 750rwhp pushing 15lbs of boost but running out of the box TFS 220s. Would you really expect the engine running your heads to "run circles" around the other setup?

 

Red,

Your post opens up a big can of worms in some respects.....the reality is there is very little difference between N/A applications and boosted applications. I talk to alot of people and what I deduce from that is most think of N/A engines as requiring to "suck" to draw their intake charge while a boosted engine is "under pressure". Both are under pressure....the simple difference being the delta or difference from atmospheric pressure to atmospheric plus a given added amount of pressure normally referred to in lbs of boost pressure. Think of a boosted engine as an N/A engine in REALLY good air (a substantial negative D/A if you will).

Another myth is boosted engines dont need as good a cylinder head (that somewhat playing into this thread), because "the blower just forces it in". If anything you could argue the opposite....boost (aka additional airflow) places a higher demand on the intake port and an especially higher demand from the exhaust. Also, the higher the boost the higher the intake charge temp.....so lowering boost while making more power due to a higher flowing head is very beneficial. Boost is a measure of restriction or back pressure....a better head allows more air to flow in and flow out making more power on less boost because the additional airflow is being converted to energy.....not a hotter induction charge and a higher number on your boost gauge.

Point is a better more efficient head pays you higher dividends on a boosted application which is the direct opposite sentiment of most threads I breeze across related to the topic. Also consider the role of the exhaust port plays and how much is potentially gained by having a higher flowing more efficient design there.

All that said I couldn't give you an accurate answer.....only a best guess which would be 30-40 more HP at a lower boost figure (air/fuel flowing thru the engine and being converted to energy)....swapping pulleys to create the same boost figures might add another 20-25. The more power made and the higher the boost figures we are discussing, the more that delta between the two would climb and you start to get an exponential benefit to the deeper breathing head the more you push on it and burden the exhaust port even more.

So a good head is just as important in a forced induction engine as it is in a normally aspirated application and in fact more important is you think it all through. BUT....and this is a big BUT which somewhat plays into the choice the OP has to make....a boosted application clearly doesn't need as good a head to make a big number because boost is a wonderful thing and allows you to achieve levels of power not easily available N/A.....and better drivability as well (much smaller cams can be used in FI engines as well and in fact are preferred to keep overlap and loss of boost out your exhaust in check).

But.........there is nothing like a powerful N/A engine and the instantaneous power delivery that comes with it. Boosted engines are a bit lazy unless you have the kettle going....a similar output N/A engine is wicked to drive but that assumes a similar level of power can even be had normally aspirated.

Im waaay of topic now though.....LOL

Hope some of this gives you guys a few things to ponder!

-Tony