BTR stage 3 n/a cam. What to expect?
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Launching!
Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Attica, IN
BTR stage 3 n/a cam. What to expect? Ok so I have a BTR stage 3 cam installed in my 99 trans am. Just looking to see what to expect out of this cam like how well it performs for other people. I read around before and saw that a few people were happy with it but couldn't find much. The car has an ls1 intake which will be getting switched to an ls6 intake and has the stock 853 heads which I might switch to some 243 heads don't know yet fast 36 injectors and the common bolt ons. Car made a whapping 346 to the tire with a 3800 converter didn't know if this sounded right to anyone or not. And like I said just wanted to see what everyone else who is running the cam thinks of it and see what you all think of the numbers. This is my first ls1 car so don't beat me up to much haha. Thanks in advance.
It's a great cam. Chances are your car's lungs are really holding it back. As you build the car, here are some things to consider that should really help wake that cam up:
1. Long tube headers. You didn't mention them, so not sure if you have them. If not, the stock manifolds can't scavenge and actually work against a larger cam, especially one with lots of overlap (both valves open at same time). A set of pace setter 1-7/8" with 3" collectors and a 3" y-pipe can be had pretty cheap. Probably the next thing you should do if you haven't already.
2. Intake. You've already noted that in your OP. By the time you get the engine optimized with the cam, you might find the LS6 intake is still limiting. Consider a Fast 92/92 as a longer term investment.
3. If you're trying to keep it pretty budget friendly, porting your 853's will outperform a set of stock 243's. Depending on what your budget is, there are lots of ported head options out there in the 800-1200 range that have a proven record. PRC, AI come to mind. If you have tons of money to throw at it, it's hard to beat a set of AFR heads prepped by Tony Mamo.
4. Injectors. You won't need the 36# injectors until you clear 400 RWHP. Injectors can be had cheap, but if the price of injectors plus tune is keeping you from getting headers or a good intake, get the headers or intake first.
No beating up here. Just trying to help point in the right direction.
1. Long tube headers. You didn't mention them, so not sure if you have them. If not, the stock manifolds can't scavenge and actually work against a larger cam, especially one with lots of overlap (both valves open at same time). A set of pace setter 1-7/8" with 3" collectors and a 3" y-pipe can be had pretty cheap. Probably the next thing you should do if you haven't already.
2. Intake. You've already noted that in your OP. By the time you get the engine optimized with the cam, you might find the LS6 intake is still limiting. Consider a Fast 92/92 as a longer term investment.
3. If you're trying to keep it pretty budget friendly, porting your 853's will outperform a set of stock 243's. Depending on what your budget is, there are lots of ported head options out there in the 800-1200 range that have a proven record. PRC, AI come to mind. If you have tons of money to throw at it, it's hard to beat a set of AFR heads prepped by Tony Mamo.
4. Injectors. You won't need the 36# injectors until you clear 400 RWHP. Injectors can be had cheap, but if the price of injectors plus tune is keeping you from getting headers or a good intake, get the headers or intake first.
No beating up here. Just trying to help point in the right direction.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 269
Likes: 3
From: Attica, IN
@Darth_V8r I have 36lb injectors already on the car, and I also have a set of pacesetter longtube headers on the car already also, just seems like the 346 to the tire is pretty low and I know you weren't trying to beat up on me or anything haha thanks for the advice on the intake and heads! I'm just used to all the lt1 stuff still learning with the ls1 haha.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 269
Likes: 3
From: Attica, IN
Ya I'm going with and x-pipe I had that down on the list when I was writing down what I needed to get. Could the lack of power be because the converter isn't holding being a junk converter and throwing the numbers off? It's a revmax 3800 which was there when I got it.
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it's tough to do, but try not to get too hung up on the 346. chances are you started out around 285 to the wheels, so you swapped a cam and gained 60 HP. And you're still on stock heads and intake - and not the best stock heads or intake out there either.
Put a good intake on and some good heads, and you'll be pretty happy. FWIW, that cam should respond quite well to compression, so if you do port your heads, look into milling as well.
Put a good intake on and some good heads, and you'll be pretty happy. FWIW, that cam should respond quite well to compression, so if you do port your heads, look into milling as well.
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The quality of the converter shouldn't matter much if it was locked. If it was unlocked, 346 for cam/exhaust seems about right. If it was locked, it seems a bit low but its a dyno. Track times (trap speed) will tell you what is going on. If you don't have that,have you raced anything since the swap?
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 269
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From: Attica, IN
I have two dyno sheets from two different dyno's. Also I've ran a couple people in one was a 07 gt that is a bolt on tuned car 5 speed with gears that made 301 and from a roll I got him by a couple cars and from a dig it was bus lengths haha. The other one was a bolt on tuned 01 Camaro that made 373 to the tire and I pulled on him by a car and a half from a roll and 2 1/2-3 cars from a dig.
I have two dyno sheets from two different dyno's. Also I've ran a couple people in one was a 07 gt that is a bolt on tuned car 5 speed with gears that made 301 and from a roll I got him by a couple cars and from a dig it was bus lengths haha. The other one was a bolt on tuned 01 Camaro that made 373 to the tire and I pulled on him by a car and a half from a roll and 2 1/2-3 cars from a dig.
I'd say 373 is a pretty happy dyno on the camaro probably more like 350 or 360 at the most. Do yourself a big favor and swap on at least an ls6 intake, preferably a FAST when you swap the heads
How much overlap does that cam have? I can tell you that i picked up 30 RWHP going from the ls1 intake to a fast 92/92 and chrs1313 non ac set up. I also gained 5 mph in the 1/4. If you're set on the LS6, consider getting one from peak speed thats ported. They port match the intake to your heads for NO extra charge.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 269
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From: Attica, IN
@Redbird555 the numbers from mike norris's dyno where it was tuned are 346 rwhp 326rwtq and the graph from the other dyno is 331rwhp through a unlocked converter with 12.95 12.95 and 12.92 Air fuel ratio. @Scotty2000ss overlap is 10 degrees
Last edited by zboy2012; Jul 18, 2015 at 08:41 AM.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 269
Likes: 3
From: Attica, IN
I figured the car should destroy them also but I've been told by a couple people now that it be something to do with the way it was tuned. Because it was all installed in march and tuned in march of this year.
Something's off. You have a wicked double hump at 3500 and at 5000. The intake runners are trying to peak at 4800 rpm, which is a known constant on these engines. Peak TQ at 4800, peak power at 6300. A BTR S3 doesn't have an early enough IVC to cause that double hump and should show a stronger peak right at 4800, peak HP around 6300 and carry clean to 6800.
When mine did that, the tuner told me I had installed the cam one tooth off. Turned out the timing set was 9 degrees off - the dots lined up, but it wouldn't degree. Not saying your cam is off, but I do think you should check your cam timing to rule it out.
When mine did that, the tuner told me I had installed the cam one tooth off. Turned out the timing set was 9 degrees off - the dots lined up, but it wouldn't degree. Not saying your cam is off, but I do think you should check your cam timing to rule it out.
I have the BTR Stage III on some old ported 241's and it made 420 locked and 402 unlocked through a LS6 intake, SE 1 7/8" LT, 3" cutout,SS3600 converter and 10 bolt. Runs 11.53 at 117mph on motor (see sig for mods and N20 times). It's a great cam...check the degree and tune.