torqueing the bolts instead of using degrees
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 21
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torqueing the bolts instead of using degrees been trying to assemble my build and trying to use the degrees guage really sucks, is it possible to use a regular torque rench and if it is what would be the specs for rod bolts, head bolts, main cap bolts, etc.
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 257
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Torque to yield, TTY, is considered the best method for fastening many of the essential parts of your engine. Torque alone has been found to be prone to error and not as reliable as TTY. TTY stretches the bolts to engineering specs and gives the most reliable clamp. Head bolts and many others can be marked with a marker and turned the required degrees by simply watching the mark on the bolt - no angle meter necessary. If you consider the time and money involved in most engine builds, it's probably best to do it right and only do it once.
Torque to yield, TTY, is considered the best method for fastening many of the essential parts of your engine. Torque alone has been found to be prone to error and not as reliable as TTY. TTY stretches the bolts to engineering specs and gives the most reliable clamp. Head bolts and many others can be marked with a marker and turned the required degrees by simply watching the mark on the bolt - no angle meter necessary. If you consider the time and money involved in most engine builds, it's probably best to do it right and only do it once.
the rods i've heard people done to 45 ft/lbs and the heads to 75 ft/lbs
no clue on the mains though...the inners and outers get different specs
I was pleasantly surprised when arp didn't list an angle measurement for torqueing the bolts. the reason is that the lubricant they provide gives a known coefficient of friction. so they know how much torque is lost to friction and can give a proper number.
the reason stock bolts are tty or have a torque angle measurement is that the oil used as lubricant changes the friction coefficient in an unknown way. each oil is different. so an angle measurement is the most precise way to measure that and get within spec.
if you don't want to try an angle measurement, buy arp :p
the reason stock bolts are tty or have a torque angle measurement is that the oil used as lubricant changes the friction coefficient in an unknown way. each oil is different. so an angle measurement is the most precise way to measure that and get within spec.
if you don't want to try an angle measurement, buy arp :p
An angle gauge is pretty inexpensive - cheaper than a good torque wrench - and really easy to use. It's also a much more accurate method of torqueing down a bolt. If you're using a stock TTY bolt, you really should do it this way.
TECH Regular
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 443
Likes: 3
From: Kansas City, MO
If you're using stock bolts, you should use the correct torque spec to the correct angle. If you re-use the bolts, they usually break since they have been previously stretched. When you torque TTY bolts to the correct angle the actual torque you put on the wrench is less than the torque required to overcome the yield strength of the bolt. So if you were to just use a torque wrench to a certain spec, it wouldn't ever get to the correct tightness since you didn't overcome the yield strength of the bolt and get it to stretch.
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If I were going to try to figure out what torque specs would create equal stretch and clamping force to the factory TTA procedure, I would build a jig where I could access both ends of the bolt, then I would follow the factory procedure and measure how much the bolt grew. Then, I would take another new bolt and torque it until it grew the same amount. I would probably do this at least three different times with three brand new bolts to make sure that I consistently produced the same results.
Mark the bolt, and mark the socket.
Hell I go a step further and mark my spark plug socket to make sure all of my plugs face the same direction. Maybe that's just me being ocd about the setup being exact across all cylinders
Hell I go a step further and mark my spark plug socket to make sure all of my plugs face the same direction. Maybe that's just me being ocd about the setup being exact across all cylinders
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
You are overthinking it IMO, Im sure its not hard to eyeball 60 or 90 if you picture a circle in your head. Heck you could mark it using the eyeball meter and probably get it damn close. This isnt a top fuel motor here after all.
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 280
Likes: 53
If you want to torque to a torque spec rather than an angle spec, go ARP. The studs are rather pricey, but definitely MILES better than stock. But if you find them too expensive, you can always go with ARP bolts. They still torque to a torque spec rather than an angle spec. And, like the studs, they are reusable.
Agreed. After all, we learned how to read the hands of a clock in elementary school. It's not so different folks. If someone can't eyeball within a few degrees they should check in with an optometrist. Close counts in horse shoes, hand grenades, and TTA hardware.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,758
Likes: 442
Mark a vertical line on the face of the bolt with a marker or sharpie. Use that as a reference. Ive never had any problems doing this.
A torque angle gauge is $20 at Sears. $20. Why eyeball it when you can get it exactly right every single time for $20?
With head bolts, consistency counts. That's why the angle is used instead of the torque. It provides a more consistent clamping force across the head surface. And that's why the bolts are use once and toss. After the first use, they change, and the clamping force becomes less consistent.
If you're going to assemble an engine, spend the little bit if money it takes to buy or borrow the right tools. Do it right once and then move on.
Or just wing it, and hope for the best.
With head bolts, consistency counts. That's why the angle is used instead of the torque. It provides a more consistent clamping force across the head surface. And that's why the bolts are use once and toss. After the first use, they change, and the clamping force becomes less consistent.
If you're going to assemble an engine, spend the little bit if money it takes to buy or borrow the right tools. Do it right once and then move on.
Or just wing it, and hope for the best.