Ok you are speaking French to me. I don’t understand why, when the specs are so close!
What Makes The Summit cam have torque and the GM cam have upper end? I’m just looking at the specs.
​​​​​​Like I said I don’t know crap about this stuff! Plus the Tuner I took my truck to for its final turn said he could raise the idle speed to help remove the lope! The only reason he hasn’t tuned it is because I need to add knock sensors back! (Removed because of Bad Advice!)
Why Because the engine builder said that the knock sensors will go off with the cam so they were deleted! (Another bad advice MISTAKE!)
I don’t know what to believe anymore❗️ Again I’m just going by what I’m reading on the internet!
Opinions are like ********, Everybody has one and this is getting old I should just go get the stock L33 cam.
Plus remember this 07 Truck had a 168 HP engine from the factory so almost anything is an improvement. I have the exact same model truck but it’s an 05 with 158k miles and the only thing I had to do to it was maintenance and replace batteries!
Yes LS truck is an absolute beast to drive but I hate having to slip the Twin Disc Summit clutch just so I can drive through a parking lot.
My Apologies guys but this is getting frustrating!

 

Thanks‼️ But Google the difference between the 2001 and the 2002 plus cam and see what you read.

 

As a general rule, a wider LSA idles smoother and makes more top end power than a narrow LSA cam. But rev past peak power with a wide LSA, and you'll see the power drops off steeper than a narrower LSA. A tighter LSA idles a bit more lumpy/rougher, but makes more midrange torque, and will have a slightly lower peak than the wider LSA. But power doesn't drop off so dramatically like the wider LSA will. Just general guidelines here. One thing to note about a narrower LSA. It holds both valves open a bit longer than a wide LSA. This used to be known as "overlap." BUT-Just as a narrower LSA increases the time both valves are open, it also increases the time both valves are closed. FWIW.......

 

ok so very quick cam lesson. First, to answer your question, the 01 cam and the 03 cam probably have the same lope and driveability since their overlap is very similar. I tend to agree with the others that this is probably tune related and I would look into that before you switch cams. I dont think a cam swap from your small cam to a stock cam is worth the effort.

So if you read that hotrod article, you can see how increasing duration and lsa give more top end power in exchange for a loss of bottom end. Tightening lsa combined with typical advance yields a lower ICL, but more importantly, a lower intake valve closing point. IVC is probably the most important valve events as it determines where the cam makes power in the rpm range.

So the later ls6 cam is 204/218 on a 117.5 - 2.5. As mentioned previously, that is 2.5 degrees retarded, as opposed to advanced, which will make the intake valve close later, and hence more top end power in exchange for a bottom end loss. Here is the summit valve events and overlap calculator

https://www.summitracing.com/newsand...2j4bveFTKMv21e



see how the later ls6 cam has a IVC of 42? Thats pretty late for an ls stock cam. Now lets look at the 204/211, 116lsa ls6 cam. I dont know advance so I will use 0, which it probably isnt. The ivc is 38 which is better. If it is advanced, subtract that from the ivc.

The 01-04 ls1 cam (also used on later lq4s and maybe lq9s?) Is 196/208, 116+1. That yields an ivc of 33. It will be better down low that the ls6 cams due to lower ivc and duration. It will also run out of steam faster and wont peak at 6k+ rpms like the later ls6 cam with the much later ivc close.

Aftermarket cams has more aggressive lobes and can both maintain low end while greatly increasing top end. Thats why I recommended the btr stage 1 truck cam v3. 201 duration and a tighter 111 lsa. But it will have similar manners as your current cam.

 

Hayrider,

Take a look at this for some reading material. It also includes a video. That should help shed some light on how camshafts, specifically camshaft/ valve timing events, affect engine performance.

 

Guys,
I’m really and truly not trying to be a smart *** or start anything but I’m really confused but I’m trying to read up and would love to understand this stuff better. Long story short way back when I started racing Mountain Bikes I asked a friend if I could watch him work so I could pick up. So I learned how to work on expensive / upper end bicycles. Many of you are probably laughing at this but you be shocked how many top technicians can’t build a bicycle wheel the proper way or adjust a front or even a rear derailleur! Or even change a bicycle tire. Yes it’s very elementary but you be shocked! Dear old dad was an AutoBody Man & Painter, he told me if I decided to work on vehicles for a living he beat the crap out of me. He said no problem learning but don’t plan on making a living being a auto tech.
Again my apologies to everyone who trying to straighten my dumb *** out!

 

That's fine this is how you learn, and it takes time to digest and understand it. Read my post above about Intake Valve Close. In my opinion, thats the only valve even that you need to focus on. The rest you can gather from Duration, LSA, and Advance. Lift helps, especially if you have non-stock heads. With stock heads, the difference in flow between .500 and .600 Lift is minimal. Maybe 10hp at the top of the RPM range.

Regarding IVC again, your summit cam has an IVC of 34.5, which is great. It will do better than the stock 5.3L 190/190 cam everywhere except maybe 2500-3000 and lower.

Cams like the BTR Truck Norris and Summit 8728 Big Torkinator do so well because they have a 212 intake duration which is a nice sweet spot for increase in top end without losing too much bottom. Plus their IVCs are around 33 to also help down low.

Like I mentioned before, Low to mid 40s is the best IVC to wind to 6k rpm and greater. And as always, you gain top end power at the expense of low end torque.

Watch this video. Its a dyno comparison of the truck norris cam and the BTR ls1 stage 1. Truck norris is all about low and mid range grunt. Stage 1 is about top end. IVC of TN is 33ish. IVC of Stage 1 is low 40s. Intake durations are similar at 212 vs 217 but you can see how the power curve is way different due to the different valve events. It's all about where you want the power.


Thats why I recommended the new BTR stage 1 v3 truck cam. 201 intake duration with a 111lsa to have great low and mid range with great manners and the 21X exhaust duration keeps the power going at the top of the range and will peak close to 6K in a 5.3L and pull to 6500.

 

@Abs Sir sorry I’m absolutely not interested in either one of the BTR cams both are too aggressive. Remember I’m after a smooth idle with a quiet exhaust system plus the cats I have are a 200 cell count. We are moving so I just found a set of takeoff cleanup cats from a new vehicle I purchased back in 2015 that I completely forgot about. They are going to replace the 200 cell count on truck as my lovely wife complain about the smell from the truck.

Plus I like what @Kubs said about the GM cam I just purchased. I really don’t need all that much torque in a truck that weighs 3100 pounds.
With the CalTracs I’m not towing anything just making trips to Costco. It’s just a weekend cruiser, I’m not interested in having the fastest truck. When we get into the new Casa I’m purchasing a MaxJax 2 post lift (Low ceiling) so I can detail the undercarriage clean and powder coat undercarriage parts satin black. I picked up a little spray gun so I can clean w/ compound & touch up paint the engine bay where it’s been scratched and has discolored.

Again Thanks for all the advice as I’m still lost on all the cam specs but I will definitely try to learn more about what they specifically do.

 

I know what the differences are, which is why I found the AI response funny.

I know youre learning and trying to understand, which is great, but the rules for a cam that apply on paper will not always translate into real world. Since the 2 Z06 cams have a different LSA, on paper one is directionally better for drivability yes, but in the car you would not feel a difference at all. This is the same for your current Summit cam. Yes is directionally even farther from the '02+ cam in terms of drivability (again, only on paper), but the intake closing event and overlap are small enough you will not notice a difference in the car. That is what matters. Summit has some smart people who have done their homework.

Again, I think the best thing you can do is get someone to look at the tune and fix your issues. I had a C4 Corvette with a 221/228 cam and 111LSA and more overlap than your Summit cam. I could idle that car around a parking lot with zero bucking or drivability issues.

 

Hayrider, the more you learn about cams, the more you will realize stages are for people who like horse drawn vehicles!! One person's stage 2 is another person's stage 3, etc. It is best to learn which valve events are doing what. I agree the intake closing is the most important event. However, the exhaust opening is also important. Open it too early, and any remaining cylinder pressure is lost. Anyway, good luck on cam speak 101!!

 

I wasnt recommending the cams in the video. I was trying to show you how even with similar durations, cams can produce power in different places. With a 3100 pound truck, the 02-04 z06 cam is fine although it is a 5.3 so that will make it even softer down low. The summit cam already in there is best. Just get the tune sorted out.

 

Ok,
I will ask the tuner if he can get the lope out of the idle. But if I remember correctly he said he could raise the idle speed to help remove the lope. He didn’t tune it because he asked me why the “knock sensors” were removed? I told him Van (the engine builder) said I would get check engine lights with the cam. Tim the tuner said Van was nuts and he would call and straighten him out. They are both good friends from what I understand. But in the meantime I’m going to have to pay to have new knock sensors installed because I just don’t have time helping my wife pack. (Sorry guys way too much information!)

 

[QUOTE=grinder11;20629422][QUOTE=Abs;20628315]
Was this a mistake post? I think you just reposted my previous post.

 

[QUOTE=Abs;20629488]I don't know wth happened! The post I made after the quoted txt totally disappeared. So, it was either a mistake on my part OR somehow a glitch? Sorry for the confusion....

 

[QUOTE=grinder11;20629535]Sorry guys for the slow response!
What many of you don’t understand is that whatever low end torque I may lose I really and truly don’t care. Remember the HP was @ 210 and TQ was @ 220 to the rear wheels and that was with a FI / Magnuson supercharger. The L33 NA will at a minimum be a 100 plus or more to the rear wheels! I just want to be able to slowly drive through a parking lot!
Again I could care less about winning a drag race! All I know is if I plant my foot into it, it will spin the 275/45-19 Perelli P7’s at will now that I installed Caltrax’s

 

[QUOTE=Hayrider;20629699]did you decide to roll with the ls6 cam? Should be fine with that. Will help you rev out if you care about that, and it will be easy to drive around.

 

[QUOTE=Abs;20629710]OMG‼️ You are so correct‼️
Well I’m sure most here will think I’m an idiot but I did have the Summit cam pulled to go with a New 02-03 GM factory LS6 cam.
Everyone was correct the truck did lose a good amount of torque. I still don’t understand why with such a small difference on the specs but Oh well!
I will say that the truck is so much easier to drive and I can definitely feel the difference but I don’t care because I now LOVE driving the truck it’s so much more enjoyable! Like I said I didn’t really care about the raw HP / how the power hit! It’s now so much more enjoyable! 20 years ago I would have kept the Summit cam or even went with the BTR Truck Norris cam but now at 66 I’m very happy, yea I will sometimes miss the torque. So I have a basically a bone stock 5.3 / L33 w/ a Factory Corvette cam in the little reg. cab Tacoma.

Oh the Dyno numbers are 315 WHP & 333 Torque. And one last thing is we move from the convection oven Mesa AZ / East Metro Phoenix area to Las Cruces NM into our retirement house so back to living in drywall dust for the next few months as we try to remodel a 25 year old Casa. I.e. New interior paint countertops, stainless appliances Yada Yada Yada…

Again THANKS to EVERYONE who replied‼️
Randy

 

The summit cam you had should have been smooth also. I have a 222-226 115 in my LM7 in my 1992 C10 5 speed and i can lug around at with no bucking. Also very smooth taking off or in a parking lot. i'm glad your happy now but the other cam should have been just as smooth. The tune was the problem with the first cam.

 

Sir
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT PLEASE RESPECT MY DECISION AND MY OPINION!!!
The Summit cam is for sale if you want to try it?

My apologies but it’s my vehicle and my money that had to pay to have the cam changed (I haven’t changed a cam with the heads on so it was above my comfort level) and including the cost of the New LS6 cam this change cost me close to $1900 and worth it‼️ And no I’m not rich I’m on a Social Security income. But now I can enjoy driving my bucket list that I saved for MANY MANY YEARS to do!!!

Just charging the cam made a huge difference and one I love. The L33 idles so much better and yes it lost low end torque but ask me if I give a $h!t‼️
Again WITHOUT EVEN GETTING A TUNE THE LS6 CAM IS FAR SUPERIOR FOR WHAT I WANT‼️

So please respect my opinion and again the Summit cam is for sale!!! It’s at the shop where it was installed…

So again if you think the Summit can be tuned to idle smooth why don’t you buy it from me and TRY it❓

Randy

 

Your decision is yours to live with, but you wasted $1900 on swapping parts instead of finding a tuner. The truth is really that simple. There is no opinion that changes facts, regardless of what people seem to think nowadays. If you are happy with your decision, then that is what counts.