Ok,
I took the right side apart. checked lifter lash first on #2, was about .170", but then although rocker felt loose on the valve, I did not verify TDC, so I checked again on #4, this time about .060".
I do not have a caliper to measure pushrods, but compared to new ones I just received, melling MPR-614, which are strd spec at 7.397. I also had standing oil on all the rockers, so indication of good oiling.
Do we agree, my failure is not due to over or under stroke of the lifters?
Now the bad.
I have 5 more bad rockers, including 2 that have the pushrod ball stuck in the rocker cup, for a total of 8 bad rockers.

could any of this be related to running 10w-30 rather than spec 5w-30? Possible startup damage when I was indicating no oil pressure?(even though I thought to have isolate that issue to a bad sensor)
I am guessing I would be better to start with another new, know quality, set of lifters, one piece push rods, and a new full set of rockers.
could all this just be related to using old 200k miles ball pushrods on new lifters?

This is just a stock build, is it worth the cost for heavy duty rockers and springs as recommended above, this project has already cost more than I planned, and looks like about another $500.
Also looking for recommendations on brand of lifters, pushrods, rockers

 

Likely a oiling issue. Is the motor cruddy inside? What oil you use?

 

 

Why buy more ball end pushrods?
Peace of mind is hard to put a price on, but we have so many starting at $70 and going up.
We can get you in a brand new set of lifters, rockers with hd trunion, zddp break in lube, head gaskets, head bolts for $375 shipped (if you have notched heads add $18)
Thats it.

 

I think you either have the wrong length pushrods. I would measure to confirm. Or an oiling problem which i think is your problem since the pushrods were stuck in the rockers. The lifter that had the bad pushrods can you push the plunger down and does it return?

 

visually confirmed oil flow over rocker under fill hole when i had 0 guage indication the we found to be a bad sensor. Actually sprayed over rocker at high rpm.
not sure about current lifter plunger, will check this pm.
new parts on order, lifter set, rocker set, head gaskets and bolts, and a length checker. Plan to order 1 piece pushrods based on length.
As head was milled, new lifter plungers sat higher, i am guessing the reused pushrods we too long, just about bottom out lifter pistons, causing limited oiling.

 

Confirmed that the lifters were pumped up, and I could not depress the lifter plunger at all. I did compare and original lifter to the new ones I installed, and found that the plunger retaining wire was .086 below the top on the original lifters and .068 from the top on the new lifters, .018 higher on the new lifter. Also looking at my machine work paperwork, the heads were milled down .007. In effect my pushrods were .025 inches higher/ longer than they were originally. Not sure if this was enough to bottom out a lifter and cause the lack of oiling on some of the rockers......

 

New parts on hand(new lifters,new rockers with trunnion upgrade, head gasket)- please help me confirm push rod length to orderI put in 4 of the new lifters over 1&3, and got #1 to TDC, then bolted on the head with the new headgasket to just 30inlb just the bolts around cyl #1 and a couple of bolts around #5. Setting the new rocker arm over #1 In, I could feel where I could move the lifter a bit, vs just a gap in the rocker/valve.Using the Comp Cam length adjust tool 7702-1, I found 0(zero) lash at 8-3/4 turns out. Verified 8-1/2 had a gap, 8-3/4 did not. Repeated on #1 Ex with same measurement, then repeated again on #1 In.So if my math is correct7702-1 starting length 6.8”+(8-3/4 turns x .050).4375= 7.2375 zero lash, + .03 preload = 7.2675, rounded to 7.27” pushrods required

7.27 seems like a weird number. Does this seem like a reasonable number, or am I doing something wrong? Does this help explain the original damage using 7.4 pushrods?
Brian

 

Do you have the old head gasket? I would use that instead since it was compressed. Not sure what lifters you are using, but 0.030" seems light even for a Morel lifter.

 

I do appreciate the input, but you have me wondering. Would it not be better to take the pushrod measurement with the actual head gasket I plan to use. As the old one is a different model/manufacturer. I do agree that at just 30ftlbs, the head is not fully compressing the gasket, but I think the difference would be just a couple thousands.
Also the new lifters that WS6store sent me are supposed to be stock OE rollers, and everything I can find seems that lifter preload should be .020-.060 with .030 desired. Please tell me if I am wrong.

now that I have a proper measuring tool, I have also thought about trying to get a measurement with the old headgasket, lifters, rockers and see just how far it was off.
I might mess with this, as I am still waiting on new pushrods to length and head bolt set.

 

 

Never add preload. always measure it.
This is what i normally do. turn the checker out to 7.400. Then turn rocker bolt down to 0 lash as in 0 net movement. Then count turns after. You are looking for 3/4 of a turn til bottomed out.
Its that simple. more than 3/4 you are too long. less you are too short.

Do not put .030 preload on those lifters. .050 to .060 is the window.

Also MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR ROCKER RAIL ON THE HEAD. That seems like a trivial sentence but ive literally had 20 guys call mad because their pushrods were wrong or measurements were wrong because they didnt do that.

 

This comp cam instruction video with OE lifters states to turn 1 to 1-3/4. what gives?

 

Yes machinist took .007 off the heads
I went ahead and put a new lifter in #1 intake, and a old lifter in #2 exhaust. Still at #1 TDC compression. Then put on a old head gasket, and torqued head down to 50ftlb. I tested exhaust side with an old rocker, and the intake side with a new rocker.

Yes, I used the rocker rail.
I tested per WS6store suggestion to count rocker bolt turns from zero lash. The attached chart shows I should have used 7.35 push rods, where I actually reused stock 7.4s. Not sure if being .050 too long accounts for my damage and lack of oiling, but maybe.
Now with the new lifters and rockers, if everyone agrees, I need to order 7.30 one piece pushrods.

Also, per head gaskets, I looked of their specs,
Old gasket felpro 26191pt .048 thick
New Gm ls1/ls6 12498544(57/HO53L) .051 thick
not much different, .003

 

 

My process... I set the checker out a set number of turns and placed into lifter bore. Then placed lifter, ensuring checker proper under rocker seat. Run rocker bolt down slowly just until rocker tip gap between rocker and valve top is zero gap(zero lash). Thsi left the rocker sitting on the push rod and valve, but the trunion floating above rail. Then with 22ftlb torque wrench, turned rocker bolt, counting degree of wrench/bolt turn until full torque, this ensured that the rocker trunion was fully seated on the rail. Repeated, adjusting checker until the final tq wrench rotation was 3/4 turn. 3/4 rotation got me to 7.30"

In the case of the old lifter that is pumped up, I could actually see the valve open during this final 3/4 turn. The new lifters, I am pretty sure that final turn depressed the lifter plunger, and not the valve.

My previous process was to adjust the checker until I could turn the rocker bolt down tight to zero lash, which is the point where the rocker is both fully seated on the trunnion and just zero gap at the valve, ensuring I was not pushing into the lifter. At this setting I am able to lift the rocker tip against the lifter spring. Then I mathamatically added the additional desired preload to the checker length..... I used .030 as a desired preload value, But WS6store said it should be .050-.060, and that this was an inproper procedure. I came in at 7.265, but an additional .030 to get to total preload of .060 would be 7.295, rounded to 7.30"

Both processes got me to the same length- 7.30". I do appreaciate everyone taking the time to help me ensure this is correct, but I can not see where I am doing it wrong.........................

The old thing I see that my be off is I have the lifter under test sitting at pistion TDC compression, rather than measure 'Intake when Exhaust Opening', and measure 'Exhaust when Intake Closing', because I figured TDC compression would allow me to measure both I and E sides at the same time without moving the crank, and at TDC compression puts both lifters on the cam base circle. Is this incorrect?

 

You dont have to torque the bolt down. That merely springs the bolt in the hole. Bolted down flush and tight is all you need. It takes additional movement to torque it down and that may be where you are running into an issue.
Measure your checker to make sure it is right also I have seen them off before.
That pr length is just way too short even inlcuding the clean up on deck surface. You could have an odd short deck but cant say for sure there.
Youre 100% sure you are on the base circle of the cam also?
Something isnt right there. Thats a tenth of an inch which is a considerable amount of difference esp in an engine where .050 is a mile.

 

You are changing way to many variables at once to get a good and consistent answer. Use the old gasket, tighten down the head. Open the pushrod to 7.250" and insert and tighten the rocker snug. Don't keep going to full torque in the aluminum heads.

With this setup, you should not be at zero lash but be short. Now use a feel gauge and measure between the rocker tip and the valve stem. Let's say you get 0.020" with the feeler gauge. Remove the pushrod and then open the pushrod by 0.020"/1.54 or 0.013" or 1/2 turn and try again. You should be darn near zero lash. Get your zero lash measurements first, then move on from there.

 

With your setup the shortest pushrod i could imagine would be a 7.375 honestly.

 

Possibly silly engine block history questions but,,,
What are the chances the head has been milled before?
Was the block line bored oversize moving the cam up? (Ie: they didn't center the boring tool correctly.. )