Spun all 8 rod bearings
12-08-2018, 07:34 AM
#41
My opinion on the bearing clearances is if you are going with .0015 everything better be machined round and resized. I think the combo of used crank-rods-bolts without resizing @.0015 bit you. I would have checked everything as I pulled it back apart, rod sizes roundness etc to see why every bearing looks worn the same. Plasitgauge will bite you every time you assume everything is round and plastigauge says the clearance is good. I've checked cranks that would barely turn installed in the block with plasitgauge and plastigauge showed all the clearances good! Its doesn't show out of round , block core shifts, out of round rods, tapers etc. So you miss all real things that matter.Don't depend on it!
Another thing is why were the mains cut and was the block align bore checked along with how square the bores are? If this stuff isn't addressed you will be back in here again. I'd still like to see the main bearings, this will tell a bunch of what is going one. Blocks warp, shift etc, cranks bend get out of shape etc when a engine fails the most important time is the tear down, you need to be able to find the issue now or you will be hoping the machine shop fixes your trouble< good luck with that. Most people don't have the knowledge or tools to deal with any of this. I would find the a machine shop who knows your type engine alum block etc what ever you have. Good engine machine shops are very hard to find. When you find one 2 things happen, your wallet will be tore up and all your headaches will disappear. Anyone can put a engine together, but very few can machine them properly.
I know my opinion sucks but trust me I've been down this road so many times you can't imagine.
I think plasitgauge is absolutely useless crap in the hands of anyone except of a professional WHO knows what and why it exists.
I am a professional, I don't throw darts at a problem then hope I fix them. I can tell by your posts you are tossing darts.
Another thing is why were the mains cut and was the block align bore checked along with how square the bores are? If this stuff isn't addressed you will be back in here again. I'd still like to see the main bearings, this will tell a bunch of what is going one. Blocks warp, shift etc, cranks bend get out of shape etc when a engine fails the most important time is the tear down, you need to be able to find the issue now or you will be hoping the machine shop fixes your trouble< good luck with that. Most people don't have the knowledge or tools to deal with any of this. I would find the a machine shop who knows your type engine alum block etc what ever you have. Good engine machine shops are very hard to find. When you find one 2 things happen, your wallet will be tore up and all your headaches will disappear. Anyone can put a engine together, but very few can machine them properly.
I know my opinion sucks but trust me I've been down this road so many times you can't imagine.
I think plasitgauge is absolutely useless crap in the hands of anyone except of a professional WHO knows what and why it exists.
I am a professional, I don't throw darts at a problem then hope I fix them. I can tell by your posts you are tossing darts.
Last edited by RockinWs6; 12-08-2018 at 08:35 AM.
12-08-2018, 08:47 AM
#42
12-08-2018, 11:22 AM
#43
It's good you're getting away from that white grease. I usually use oil on the bearings, but Clevite's Bearing Guard is good stuff. I REALLY don't like that white grease though. I've seen it harden up if it sits too long. That could easily have blocked the oil passages in the crank.
How quickly does the white lithium grease take to harden up days, weeks or months?
12-08-2018, 02:50 PM
#45
i'm not getting into the oil type or brand debate (hey we made it over a month without one guys! whoo hoo)
but with all the stuff going on after the first fire, I like to change the oil & filter.
usually the filter is full of pubes, fibers from rags, little nuggets of RTV, whatever water buffalo jizz the grease chinese turbos up to ship them, etc...im sure you get my point
but with all the stuff going on after the first fire, I like to change the oil & filter.
usually the filter is full of pubes, fibers from rags, little nuggets of RTV, whatever water buffalo jizz the grease chinese turbos up to ship them, etc...im sure you get my point
12-08-2018, 07:09 PM
#46
i'm not getting into the oil type or brand debate (hey we made it over a month without one guys! whoo hoo)
but with all the stuff going on after the first fire, I like to change the oil & filter.
usually the filter is full of pubes, fibers from rags, little nuggets of RTV, whatever water buffalo jizz the grease chinese turbos up to ship them, etc...im sure you get my point
but with all the stuff going on after the first fire, I like to change the oil & filter.
usually the filter is full of pubes, fibers from rags, little nuggets of RTV, whatever water buffalo jizz the grease chinese turbos up to ship them, etc...im sure you get my point
12-08-2018, 07:38 PM
#47
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
First it was public urinals, and now our pickup tubes??!! Stupid pubes!!!
12-09-2018, 09:34 AM
#49
Cam bearings are all lined up. Hole at the 3 o'clock position. so if they spun, they all spun the same amount. Block is going back to the machine shop to get the galleys and everything all cleaned out, I will have this double checked.
I used white lithium assembly grease. Quite a bit. I'm using clevite bearings and will be using either clevite assembly lube, or permatex ultra slick assembly lube
I don't do transmissions for a living, (engineering 9-5) but do plenty of trans work and high performance stuff. I agree wholeheartedly that there is probably a compounding of issues that all added up to overall failure.
I'm going to try again, and pay extra special attention to the things discussed in this thread. I've also started building a pre oiler (essientially just a PVC pressure vessel you can fill with oil and add air pressure on top to force it into the block) and I'll use that when putting it back in the car.
One last thing I've just GOT to ask...despite the disagreement I think might follow...what do you guys recommend for break in oil? I've heard from alot of places to not use synthetic...and not use any additives. Just use a good conventional oil high in zddp, with minimal detergents and moly. Oil is cheap so I don't mind wasting money on oil if that's what is "technically best" for this pile of **** f body haha
-change after first heat cycle
-change at 50
-change at 150
-change at 500
-change at 1000
-change at 2000
-proceed as you wish with whatever oil you wish (now OK to use synthetic)
I used white lithium assembly grease. Quite a bit. I'm using clevite bearings and will be using either clevite assembly lube, or permatex ultra slick assembly lube
I don't do transmissions for a living, (engineering 9-5) but do plenty of trans work and high performance stuff. I agree wholeheartedly that there is probably a compounding of issues that all added up to overall failure.
I'm going to try again, and pay extra special attention to the things discussed in this thread. I've also started building a pre oiler (essientially just a PVC pressure vessel you can fill with oil and add air pressure on top to force it into the block) and I'll use that when putting it back in the car.
One last thing I've just GOT to ask...despite the disagreement I think might follow...what do you guys recommend for break in oil? I've heard from alot of places to not use synthetic...and not use any additives. Just use a good conventional oil high in zddp, with minimal detergents and moly. Oil is cheap so I don't mind wasting money on oil if that's what is "technically best" for this pile of **** f body haha
-change after first heat cycle
-change at 50
-change at 150
-change at 500
-change at 1000
-change at 2000
-proceed as you wish with whatever oil you wish (now OK to use synthetic)
All of our builds use ported and shimmed LS1/LS6 GM pumps - some with over 150k miles on them. There is no requirement for high volume pumps.
12-10-2018, 10:09 AM
#50
Rockin nailed it. This is one thousand percent rod big ends out of round. Saw this with my own used LS3 rods. Literally retorqing the GM bolts with light oil on the threads and EPL(extreme pressure lube) under the head would distort the large ends from .0008”-.0012”. Given your plasti-gauge measurement of .0015”. These things were destined to kill them selves no matter the pump. Oil. Pickup clearance etc. even those who have RnR’d GM bolts with ARP have occasionally had terrible failures on SBE stuff. Only the Now discontinued Katech bolts would put the big ends out of round .0003”. Which then mine were a couple quick strokes on the Sunnen from being perfectly round while just inside max OD spec. My clearances on a factory polished LQ4 crank were .0018” with cheap as heck rod bearings and a ported shimmed factory pump in a bat wing pan. Broke the engine in a few heat cycles with the green oil then switched to Mobil one and had the tune done before pounding the hell out of it. So far stable pressures and roughly 5000 trouble free miles.
12-10-2018, 12:46 PM
#51
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
Well I'm glad I'm getting them resized then! I am going to go .002 over and use the oversize bearings.
Which would be recommended? clevite CB1776A or CB1776P
I see the P series are listed as "high eccentricity for high rpm"
I'll spin 6800 tops so I'm leaning towards the A
Which would be recommended? clevite CB1776A or CB1776P
I see the P series are listed as "high eccentricity for high rpm"
I'll spin 6800 tops so I'm leaning towards the A
12-10-2018, 01:05 PM
#52
Now would be the time to throw some ARP bolts in the rods if you aren't already on it.
Not needed at 6800 rpm but the peace of mind of having them is worth their cost (in my opinion) and you'll be getting the rods machined anyway. And if you decide to go for high rpm later it'll already be ready for it.
Not needed at 6800 rpm but the peace of mind of having them is worth their cost (in my opinion) and you'll be getting the rods machined anyway. And if you decide to go for high rpm later it'll already be ready for it.
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Supramon808 (03-15-2021)
12-10-2018, 03:28 PM
#54
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
I don't see the H availible in .002 oversize rod diameter.
The "A" is just a normal bimetal bearing
Yes, going with ARP rod bolts
The "A" is just a normal bimetal bearing
Yes, going with ARP rod bolts
12-11-2018, 08:24 AM
#58
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
I was actually just looking at those! I'm wondering if they have different options for journal diameter. I'm thinking the rod journal will end up getting cut .010
12-11-2018, 08:36 AM
#59
I’d be surprised if they didn’t. ACL sometimes has sizes in .009” or .011” under in case you need to adjust clearance too. I usually get the bearings first, measure the ID in the bores with the bolts torqued, then add in the clearance I want and thats what I tell my crank grinder what OD to grind the crank to.
12-11-2018, 08:39 AM
#60
Restricted User
90% of the time I see this, its either from a high volume pump on an F-body pan, or ARP rod bolts in stock rods.
Another 5% is usually bad choice of assembly lube. Bearing grease or white grease usually being the culprits.
Rods being out of round or lube being used on the backside of the bearings are like 1%. Not common at all.
I've assembled a dumb amount of engines re-using high mileage rods, re-using the rod bolts, tossing in stock replacement bearings without checking clearance, and using gear oil or cam assembly lube on the bearings and have never had a single issue. Most of the failures seem to be due from excess. Oil pump or rod bolts that aren't needed and aren't accounted for.
Another 5% is usually bad choice of assembly lube. Bearing grease or white grease usually being the culprits.
Rods being out of round or lube being used on the backside of the bearings are like 1%. Not common at all.
I've assembled a dumb amount of engines re-using high mileage rods, re-using the rod bolts, tossing in stock replacement bearings without checking clearance, and using gear oil or cam assembly lube on the bearings and have never had a single issue. Most of the failures seem to be due from excess. Oil pump or rod bolts that aren't needed and aren't accounted for.