C5 engine decisions
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 89
Likes: 3
From: Morristown TN
C5 engine decisions Hey yall, got a question for ya. After installing a 228R cam and ls7 style lifters along with PRC 225 60cc heads, LS2 silver blade TB, and Dorman LS2 style manifold on my 2000 C5 LS1, one of the lifters can apart after 600 miles. So I have these 60cc PRC 225 heads, the Torquer V2 cam, LS2 Dorman Intake, and LS2 TB. I am wondering what is the best option for me at this point. Just rebuild the LS1 to stock 346ci or would the heads and cam work well for 383ci? I have also thought about changing the intake manifold to a FAST 92 but so far my research shows there is not a whole lot of gain between it and the Dorman I have now. Would the 60cc chamber be to small for a 383ci build? Overall my car is a street car that I like to drive hard on curvy roads. I do not drag race other than maybe a roll race on the highway here and there. I want to maintain the aluminum block and use what I have. My C5 is not a show stopper, I simply enjoy the handling it has for curves but want it to get up and go in and out of the turns and have a good straight away temper as well. Good idle and drivability with a stock M6 trans and 3:42 rear end. I also have the LS7 style clutch that is practically new if that matters.
Thanks in advance.
Also I already have VR B2 Vararam ram air intake with power tube, TSP LTs with catless X-pipe and BB Fusion axle back exhaust.
Thanks in advance.
Also I already have VR B2 Vararam ram air intake with power tube, TSP LTs with catless X-pipe and BB Fusion axle back exhaust.
Last edited by Daniel Kinsler; Oct 9, 2019 at 10:00 PM.
The cam and heads will be fine for the 383, but are you going for fine or all out? You could go with a little bigger on both but it will still make plenty of power with those heads.
Instead of going to the 92 go to the 102. In the intake manifold tests that have been done the Dorman LS2 is supposed to be one of the lower performers, if I remember correctly even the stock GM LS6 manifold with the 78mm inlet out performs it so I would think a FAST 92 would do better. But the 102 for sure is better especially with the 383.
As for compression with those heads, you'll be building the motor, pick a piston that gives you the compression you want with whichever heads you choose to run.
Instead of going to the 92 go to the 102. In the intake manifold tests that have been done the Dorman LS2 is supposed to be one of the lower performers, if I remember correctly even the stock GM LS6 manifold with the 78mm inlet out performs it so I would think a FAST 92 would do better. But the 102 for sure is better especially with the 383.
As for compression with those heads, you'll be building the motor, pick a piston that gives you the compression you want with whichever heads you choose to run.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 638
Likes: 297
From: Michigan
There's not really much you can do yet gain more power without spending a lot more money. Fast 92 or 102 would gain a little bit, more if you got it ported by Tony Mamo. If you have 1 3/4" headers you could gain a tiny bit from 1 7/8" headers, a lighter clutch would help get more power to the wheels.
Other than that you really need more displacement or you need some serious heads and a cam with an intake paired to them. Tony Mamo can put together and incredible package for you, but it's expensive.
I think an LS3 with the GPI Max package would be a ton of fun in a C5, revved out to 7500 making around 530-540 whp.
Just my .02. There are a lot of people in here who know a hell of a lot more than I do though. ^^ like Pooter^^
BTW I'm looking for a set of heads this winter, so if you're looking to get rid of your PRC 225s I may be interested in them if the price is right lol.
Other than that you really need more displacement or you need some serious heads and a cam with an intake paired to them. Tony Mamo can put together and incredible package for you, but it's expensive.
I think an LS3 with the GPI Max package would be a ton of fun in a C5, revved out to 7500 making around 530-540 whp.
Just my .02. There are a lot of people in here who know a hell of a lot more than I do though. ^^ like Pooter^^
BTW I'm looking for a set of heads this winter, so if you're looking to get rid of your PRC 225s I may be interested in them if the price is right lol.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 89
Likes: 3
From: Morristown TN
I already have the heads at 60cc and the cam
and lifters. I had found the opposite with the research on the Dorman, it was supposed to be better than the LS6 and certainly out does the OE LS2 intake. I will look at the 102 but what good will that 102 do with the LS2 TB? It is 90mm correct? Dont really want that major all out build but might as well make the best out of the situation. More of an optimized build instead of the all out kind of build if that makes sense.
and lifters. I had found the opposite with the research on the Dorman, it was supposed to be better than the LS6 and certainly out does the OE LS2 intake. I will look at the 102 but what good will that 102 do with the LS2 TB? It is 90mm correct? Dont really want that major all out build but might as well make the best out of the situation. More of an optimized build instead of the all out kind of build if that makes sense.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 89
Likes: 3
From: Morristown TN
Also edited my first post to include what I had orginally done and the exhaust and intake parts I have already as well. This is basically looking for more information than I can find my self on what to do with the short block for best optimization/functionality.
Again thanks in advance.
Again thanks in advance.
Bob is on the right track. Going faster at this point will cost you.
Why are you rebuilding for a bad lifter though?
You could always dump the money into parts that will make the car go faster no matter what motor is in it. Like light weight drive line. Reducing weight over all. Those new fancy super light wheels you've been eyeballing...
Same car same dyno. A ported dorman LS2 made 8 more hp and 7 ft lbs than a LS6. I meant out of the box. So yeah I suppose ported it is better than an LS6. But it's well over a 500 dollar investment to go from a LS6 to the dorman, porting it and replacing the throttle body to make a whopping 8 to the tires.
If you went to a 102 you'd sell your intake and throttle body and get 102mm intake and throttle body.
Why are you rebuilding for a bad lifter though?
You could always dump the money into parts that will make the car go faster no matter what motor is in it. Like light weight drive line. Reducing weight over all. Those new fancy super light wheels you've been eyeballing...
Same car same dyno. A ported dorman LS2 made 8 more hp and 7 ft lbs than a LS6. I meant out of the box. So yeah I suppose ported it is better than an LS6. But it's well over a 500 dollar investment to go from a LS6 to the dorman, porting it and replacing the throttle body to make a whopping 8 to the tires.
If you went to a 102 you'd sell your intake and throttle body and get 102mm intake and throttle body.
Last edited by 00pooterSS; Oct 9, 2019 at 10:35 PM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 89
Likes: 3
From: Morristown TN
Lifter needle bearing and metal shavings
One of the cam lobes as seen from the valley
Metal shaving in residual oil as filter cam open
Bottom of filter cup, metal shavings
Bottom of element inside filter
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Verdad Gallardo Gotcha. For what it's worth there have been tons of wiped out cams like that on modded and stock applications where guys threw in a new cam and lifters and went on with life.
It is likely to survive. Even looking that bad.
You'll probably continue to find bits and pieces as time goes on on the drain plug.
I had 8 valve springs break off at the tips many years back. I them all over time after several oil changes. Car ran for several years after and was eventually totaled by a guy that was the second owner after me selling it.
It is likely to survive. Even looking that bad.
You'll probably continue to find bits and pieces as time goes on on the drain plug.
I had 8 valve springs break off at the tips many years back. I them all over time after several oil changes. Car ran for several years after and was eventually totaled by a guy that was the second owner after me selling it.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 89
Likes: 3
From: Morristown TN
So you think it would have survived that junk going through the oil and in the bearings??? Still if I am gonna do it all again I might as well just do the stroker, use my block and buy a rotating assembly???
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 638
Likes: 297
From: Michigan
I would probably just throw the new cam and lifters in, add a Fast 102, and run it. If you're going to do a 383 I would definitely get a cam specific to a 383 stroker though.
OP, rebuild or not is really up to you. At minimum, I would put the engine on a stand and pull the oil pan off for closer internal inspection. Then I would start considering LS2 short block vs stroker build.
Stroker will make a crap ton more torque on the low end but they would have very similar top-end figures between 346, 364, or 383 (assuming same H/C/I with different bottom ends). For spirited driving on curvy roads the stroker would be a hefty investment.
Disclaimer: My Camaro has a 408. My garage contains a spare stroker crank for another build and two vehicles ready for transplant, one has bone stock LS1 and other has slightly modified 5.3 lol
Stroker will make a crap ton more torque on the low end but they would have very similar top-end figures between 346, 364, or 383 (assuming same H/C/I with different bottom ends). For spirited driving on curvy roads the stroker would be a hefty investment.
Disclaimer: My Camaro has a 408. My garage contains a spare stroker crank for another build and two vehicles ready for transplant, one has bone stock LS1 and other has slightly modified 5.3 lol
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 89
Likes: 3
From: Morristown TN
I have looked at the cams for a stroker and thus why I picked the Torquer V2. Its 232/234 at .600/.600 112 LSA. Which in my research would provide and almost stock idle sound but some chop due to the LSA. The low end torque is what pulls ya out of the curves ;-)
Edit -- By the time you invest in building a stroker you might be surprised what you can find a used LS7 short block for, swap it in, and have gobs more torque and power
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 89
Likes: 3
From: Morristown TN
Torquer cam is great for peak torque, but not low end torque. It will make peak around 4800 RPM. As to idle quality, it's going to chop. Maybe not too much, but it won't sound stock.
Edit -- By the time you invest in building a stroker you might be surprised what you can find a used LS7 short block for, swap it in, and have gobs more torque and power
Edit -- By the time you invest in building a stroker you might be surprised what you can find a used LS7 short block for, swap it in, and have gobs more torque and power
That is about the RPM range itll be in while driving around curvy country roads that are empty so that is good! As for a used LS anything I have not found cheap, unless it is an iron block which I do not want. As noted already I am
not looking for a max build just a good optimized build with the block I have. I may just do the above and just put the new cam and lifters in and see what it does, heck. Why not lol
Well nobody can guarantee yours will be fine. But cam swaps are done daily around this country due to failed lifters with ate up cams and a cam swap and lifter swap is what is done, oil changed, and send it. Those shavings would have gone into the pan, some got caught by the pickup screen, the others by the oil filter. It isn't real likely the shavings were distributed into the bearings.
There's a lot of folks here who suffered an ate up cam that threw a new one in it and kept on going is all I can really tell ya. And in factory form there are lifter issues too where mechanic shops swap the cam and lifters and go on. So CHANCES ARE you'll be fine.
There's a lot of folks here who suffered an ate up cam that threw a new one in it and kept on going is all I can really tell ya. And in factory form there are lifter issues too where mechanic shops swap the cam and lifters and go on. So CHANCES ARE you'll be fine.
Originally Posted by Daniel Kinsler
That is about the RPM range itll be in while driving around curvy country roads that are empty so that is good! As for a used LS anything I have not found cheap, unless it is an iron block which I do not want. As noted already I am
not looking for a max build just a good optimized build with the block I have. I may just do the above and just put the new cam and lifters in and see what it does, heck. Why not lol
not looking for a max build just a good optimized build with the block I have. I may just do the above and just put the new cam and lifters in and see what it does, heck. Why not lol