Cam Help for my 408.Please!
07-24-2004, 12:37 AM
#21
Originally Posted by JS
Steve did the car weight 2900 w/o driver when u ran the 11.17@120 pass
What were the weather conditions,Reason I ask is u are going 6 MPH quicker than the H/C setup.
If u take the summer pass and compare it to your winter pass it looks like this 408 is well over 8MPH+ better than the H/C setup.I'd play with the susp. first and wait for good air before changing cams.I think that verter is alittle to big too,might be over powering the tires,I'd step it back to around 4000 to 4200.
Thats a BIG MPH increase..
Your making good power w/that baby....
What were the weather conditions,Reason I ask is u are going 6 MPH quicker than the H/C setup.
If u take the summer pass and compare it to your winter pass it looks like this 408 is well over 8MPH+ better than the H/C setup.I'd play with the susp. first and wait for good air before changing cams.I think that verter is alittle to big too,might be over powering the tires,I'd step it back to around 4000 to 4200.
Thats a BIG MPH increase..
Your making good power w/that baby....
07-24-2004, 12:42 AM
#22
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
More info needed to help out further.
Give us some more details on your track pass.
Car weighed 3100 lbs or so I assume.
Give us some more details on your track pass.
Car weighed 3100 lbs or so I assume.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Had the 5000 stall converter in it or the 3400?
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
What was your 60 ft?
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
You time being 126 isn't bad, but that is probally 4 MPH less then what you were hoping for being a full race car and summer time.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
What was your peak HP and Torque number? And at what RPM's?
Also if you can remember how much HP were you making 500 RPM's past peak?
EX, If peak was at 6000, what did you make at 6500?
Also if you can remember how much HP were you making 500 RPM's past peak?
EX, If peak was at 6000, what did you make at 6500?
346 377rwhp 480rwtq
peak was 5900-6000 and fell off sharp @ 6400
07-24-2004, 01:16 AM
#23
Yes the motor is done at 5900-6000 rpm. The small duration (for a 410 inch motor) relatively tight LSA, and 4 degrees advance, makes a lot fo cylinder pressure early.
The car made 60 hp over the heads/cam setup, but the old setup had a converter that flashed to 5000 when it made 380, this one made 430 but it only flashed to 3500, was much tighter which probably contributed to 15-20 hp gain
The H/C setup 50 lbs heavier went 11.04 @ 121 first pass out untuned with Steve driving. This thing went 11.08 @ 125 in similair weather granted the verter was a bit tight, so it should et a bit betterwith the new converter but it will probably soak up some of that mph gain.
Steve you should change your sig from your heads/cam to reflect that last stock bottom end pass so it looks like it at least wasnt a slug at one point
The car made 60 hp over the heads/cam setup, but the old setup had a converter that flashed to 5000 when it made 380, this one made 430 but it only flashed to 3500, was much tighter which probably contributed to 15-20 hp gain
The H/C setup 50 lbs heavier went 11.04 @ 121 first pass out untuned with Steve driving. This thing went 11.08 @ 125 in similair weather granted the verter was a bit tight, so it should et a bit betterwith the new converter but it will probably soak up some of that mph gain.
Steve you should change your sig from your heads/cam to reflect that last stock bottom end pass so it looks like it at least wasnt a slug at one point
07-24-2004, 04:00 PM
#25
Okay let me try and help as I have been in similar shoes as you recentially.
First off I you are peaking at 6000 and the power is dead at 6400 you need to shift around 6250 so that your RPM's never go above 6400.
In a T-400 with the correct shifter you already know how fast the tranny will shift.
Next the converter is 2 small on one side and to big on the other.
As I suggested before (having the heads flowed and making a cam to the flow number) you need to do something similar with the converter.
Go back to the dyno and get some printout's of your run.
Fax these sheets to TCI, Coan, etc.
Allow them to make a call for the correct converter.
This is now the biggest aspect of making your car fast.
Having the correct converter is a huge factor as I am sure you know.
I am going to guess a 4200-4600 stall will be the correct choice.
CALL every top company you can find and buy the one you feel the most comfortable with. Just a quick example, in a similar motor with a 242/246 on a 114+2 I made peak power at 6450 and the car only lost 19 HP all the way to 7000 RPM's.
Therefore I wanted to shift around 6800.
I called a few converter companies and they ALL suggested a 5000 stall after looking at my graph in the size of a 8" converter.
A 9" might work better for you, but I am no converter expert, so call.
A 3500 is DEFENTIALLY WAY TOO SMALL for a race car like what you have.
If you add a 200 shot then that 3500 would be real close to the correct size.
Next tire's and /or suspension needs to be addressed.
To win you have to HOOK.
Invest in some 28" ET Drag's and leave those ET streets for daily driver's that like to street race.
The difference is HUGE.
I have 7 set's of times on rims at my house right now, and have used everything I can find to try and get the advantage.
When it all comes down to the race I always have my best shoes on in the form of ET DRAG SLICKS.
Hoosier would work nicely as well, but Slicks will need to be used.
Run around 10psi and do a nice burnout to get them work.
Bring the trans brake up and let go of the button.
With the combo you gave at the weight you run mid 10's should be consistant as long as you hook, and get the car setup correctly.
First off I you are peaking at 6000 and the power is dead at 6400 you need to shift around 6250 so that your RPM's never go above 6400.
In a T-400 with the correct shifter you already know how fast the tranny will shift.
Next the converter is 2 small on one side and to big on the other.
As I suggested before (having the heads flowed and making a cam to the flow number) you need to do something similar with the converter.
Go back to the dyno and get some printout's of your run.
Fax these sheets to TCI, Coan, etc.
Allow them to make a call for the correct converter.
This is now the biggest aspect of making your car fast.
Having the correct converter is a huge factor as I am sure you know.
I am going to guess a 4200-4600 stall will be the correct choice.
CALL every top company you can find and buy the one you feel the most comfortable with. Just a quick example, in a similar motor with a 242/246 on a 114+2 I made peak power at 6450 and the car only lost 19 HP all the way to 7000 RPM's.
Therefore I wanted to shift around 6800.
I called a few converter companies and they ALL suggested a 5000 stall after looking at my graph in the size of a 8" converter.
A 9" might work better for you, but I am no converter expert, so call.
A 3500 is DEFENTIALLY WAY TOO SMALL for a race car like what you have.
If you add a 200 shot then that 3500 would be real close to the correct size.
Next tire's and /or suspension needs to be addressed.
To win you have to HOOK.
Invest in some 28" ET Drag's and leave those ET streets for daily driver's that like to street race.
The difference is HUGE.
I have 7 set's of times on rims at my house right now, and have used everything I can find to try and get the advantage.
When it all comes down to the race I always have my best shoes on in the form of ET DRAG SLICKS.
Hoosier would work nicely as well, but Slicks will need to be used.
Run around 10psi and do a nice burnout to get them work.
Bring the trans brake up and let go of the button.
With the combo you gave at the weight you run mid 10's should be consistant as long as you hook, and get the car setup correctly.
07-24-2004, 08:01 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by ShiznityZ28
I did not get any flow numbers from GTP. I am going to call craig and see if i can get them. We dynoed it with a tight 3400 stall. and it was done making power at 6000 i don't have the graph. we are going to redyno it early ext week. but i want to get a new cam on its way asap.
Call FMS and go with a custom cam motion cam.
Sorry to hear about your car making low numbers
07-24-2004, 08:29 PM
#27
Originally Posted by SStroked 410
I never got a flow sheet with my heads from GTP. And dont plan on ever seeing those flow sheets cause he will give you the run around so much you will wish you never called
Call FMS and go with a custom cam motion cam.
Sorry to hear about your car making low numbers
Call FMS and go with a custom cam motion cam.
Sorry to hear about your car making low numbers
243/250 .618/.629 lsa 112. This cam was designed for my heads, but Allan would like the flow #'s of your heads to design a custom cam for you.
07-25-2004, 12:03 PM
#28
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I am going to save this thread and learn off you shiz. I just ordered another set of bogarts and 28" hoosier slicks. soft soft compund.
I had a best of 11.41 @ 122 with my heads cam setup.
GTP 408. 11.13 @ 123
Both 1.6 60 fts.
11.41 was in Nov at the import vs dom shootout.
And the 11.13 was with you at mir, hot as crap.
I am going to try the tires and some suspension adjustments. If they do not help I am already looking to get a totally different set of heads and cam.
I am going to wait at least until i can run it in chilly weather.
Still kind of sucks to spend so much on a motor and not get any build sheet, cam speca or flow #s from the builder. I can understand a set of 2300 heads. But not a Plus 10k motor.
I had a best of 11.41 @ 122 with my heads cam setup.
GTP 408. 11.13 @ 123
Both 1.6 60 fts.
11.41 was in Nov at the import vs dom shootout.
And the 11.13 was with you at mir, hot as crap.
I am going to try the tires and some suspension adjustments. If they do not help I am already looking to get a totally different set of heads and cam.
I am going to wait at least until i can run it in chilly weather.
Still kind of sucks to spend so much on a motor and not get any build sheet, cam speca or flow #s from the builder. I can understand a set of 2300 heads. But not a Plus 10k motor.
07-26-2004, 02:11 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by chris98pace
If they do not help I am already looking to get a totally different set of heads and cam.
I am going to wait at least until i can run it in chilly weather.
Still kind of sucks to spend so much on a motor and not get any build sheet, cam speca or flow #s from the builder. I can understand a set of 2300 heads. But not a Plus 10k motor.
I am going to wait at least until i can run it in chilly weather.
Still kind of sucks to spend so much on a motor and not get any build sheet, cam speca or flow #s from the builder. I can understand a set of 2300 heads. But not a Plus 10k motor.
Craig will try to talk you into going back to him to do a race port which will be like $8,000 hahah the guys a ******* joke. Excuses excuses is all I have ever heard about that guy. I'm suprised he even sent you the motor.....maybe 10-12 months after you paid him
Like Vince said FMS might be the way to go on the H/C
When I get my heads back I am gonna talk to FMS about a nice custom cam!
07-26-2004, 05:47 PM
#30
Originally Posted by SStroked 410
I never got a flow sheet with my heads from GTP. And dont plan on ever seeing those flow sheets cause he will give you the run around so much you will wish you never called
Call FMS and go with a custom cam motion cam.
Sorry to hear about your car making low numbers
Call FMS and go with a custom cam motion cam.
Sorry to hear about your car making low numbers
I run on 28 et drags
07-26-2004, 05:51 PM
#31
Originally Posted by chris98pace
I am going to save this thread and learn off you shiz. I just ordered another set of bogarts and 28" hoosier slicks. soft soft compund.
I had a best of 11.41 @ 122 with my heads cam setup.
GTP 408. 11.13 @ 123
Both 1.6 60 fts.
11.41 was in Nov at the import vs dom shootout.
And the 11.13 was with you at mir, hot as crap.
I am going to try the tires and some suspension adjustments. If they do not help I am already looking to get a totally different set of heads and cam.
I am going to wait at least until i can run it in chilly weather.
Still kind of sucks to spend so much on a motor and not get any build sheet, cam speca or flow #s from the builder. I can understand a set of 2300 heads. But not a Plus 10k motor.
I had a best of 11.41 @ 122 with my heads cam setup.
GTP 408. 11.13 @ 123
Both 1.6 60 fts.
11.41 was in Nov at the import vs dom shootout.
And the 11.13 was with you at mir, hot as crap.
I am going to try the tires and some suspension adjustments. If they do not help I am already looking to get a totally different set of heads and cam.
I am going to wait at least until i can run it in chilly weather.
Still kind of sucks to spend so much on a motor and not get any build sheet, cam speca or flow #s from the builder. I can understand a set of 2300 heads. But not a Plus 10k motor.
and cores if you look at the quote. If you have the same cam as me its a lunati 242 242 601 603 110 +4
07-26-2004, 07:13 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by ShiznityZ28
chris the heads cost more than that with the rocker arm setup and cores if you look at the quote. If you have the same cam as me its a lunati 242 242 601 603 110 +4
and cores if you look at the quote. If you have the same cam as me its a lunati 242 242 601 603 110 +4
My kids always refer to your car as the one that beat my a$$ at the shootout.
07-26-2004, 08:12 PM
#33
Originally Posted by chris98pace
I will have to watch your cam progress. You know the only reason i bought the engine was to try and keep up with you.
My kids always refer to your car as the one that beat my a$$ at the shootout.
My kids always refer to your car as the one that beat my a$$ at the shootout.
should have followed someone else 
07-27-2004, 03:13 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
Chris, me and Steve both feel a part of your pain, let me know if theres anything I can help ya with.
Looks like some bearings are shot and the crank needs to be machined a little. engine is getting taken out and down now.
07-27-2004, 04:42 PM
#36
Originally Posted by chris98pace
LIl piece of metal got stuck i the oil pump thinggy. ca rrac for a split sec without pressure.
Looks like some bearings are shot and the crank needs to be machined a little. engine is getting taken out and down now.
Looks like some bearings are shot and the crank needs to be machined a little. engine is getting taken out and down now.
07-27-2004, 06:13 PM
#38
Did someone say Futral Motorsports? I would give Allan a call. Allan will steer you in the right direction. Not to say another vendor cant, but from my personal experience he knows how to get what you want and will not stop until that happens. Now let me stop hanging from his nuts. Now if Candy was not in the picture, Allan would be broke and still street racing