Mod list inside, need help choosing perfect cam.
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Mod list inside, need help choosing perfect cam. Looking for the perfect cam for my application and mods. Im desperate to get this car into the 10s naturally aspirated, with stock heads and completely stock bottom end. Im looking for the perfect cam that will get me there. The list below has almost all the modifications done to the car. I have left out the appearance mods since it has nothing to do with performance. 
I could care less what it puts down on the dyno, all I care about is track times. I want a cam thats going to get me to the end of the track the fastest. Anyhow, what do you recommend?
Fast Toys ram air kit
K&N air filter
Texas Speed & Performance air lid
ZO6 85mm MAF
SLP high flow bellow
Bauer Racing ported & polished throttle body
LS6 intake manifold
NGK TR-55s
Holley 9mm wires
Kooks 1 3/4" stainless steel long tube headers
Custom 3" true duals w/Dynomax bullets dumped
ASP underdrive crank pulley
Meziere electric water pump
MTI C2 cam (224/.581/112)
Manley valvetrain kit
AMW oil catch can
Billingsley ABS delete block
Century 200-4R w/all options
Yank PT4400
TCI flexplate
Hal shocks in a 4 corners w/R series in front
Spohn-LCAs, PHB, TA, SFCs, & 25mm rear sway bar all in chromoly
BMR-K-member, upper & lower a-arms, & relocation brackets
Airlift airbag
Prothane motor mounts
Energy Suspension tranmission mount
Denny's nitrous ready driveshaft
Strange 12 bolt w/4.10
Bogarts-15x10/ET Drags 15x4/165R
Wolfe chromoly 6 point weld-in roll bar
Weight reduction
I could care less what it puts down on the dyno, all I care about is track times. I want a cam thats going to get me to the end of the track the fastest. Anyhow, what do you recommend? Fast Toys ram air kit
K&N air filter
Texas Speed & Performance air lid
ZO6 85mm MAF
SLP high flow bellow
Bauer Racing ported & polished throttle body
LS6 intake manifold
NGK TR-55s
Holley 9mm wires
Kooks 1 3/4" stainless steel long tube headers
Custom 3" true duals w/Dynomax bullets dumped
ASP underdrive crank pulley
Meziere electric water pump
MTI C2 cam (224/.581/112)
Manley valvetrain kit
AMW oil catch can
Billingsley ABS delete block
Century 200-4R w/all options
Yank PT4400
TCI flexplate
Hal shocks in a 4 corners w/R series in front
Spohn-LCAs, PHB, TA, SFCs, & 25mm rear sway bar all in chromoly
BMR-K-member, upper & lower a-arms, & relocation brackets
Airlift airbag
Prothane motor mounts
Energy Suspension tranmission mount
Denny's nitrous ready driveshaft
Strange 12 bolt w/4.10
Bogarts-15x10/ET Drags 15x4/165R
Wolfe chromoly 6 point weld-in roll bar
Weight reduction
Last edited by BlackBeaSSt; Nov 10, 2004 at 04:34 PM.
Why are you so set on 10's without heads? I would think money, but you have not skimped on anything so far, so why limit yourself now? If you want 10's, you will probably need a big cam (unless you have a lot of weight reduction). If you went with a G5X3 or similar, you would get power now, but it will be more difficult to add heads later (PTV clearance). I am personally going to get a set of stage 2 or similar heads with a F13 or similar cam. If I wasn't planning to ever do heads, I would probably get the G5X3 or have Futral custom design a big cam for me. Just from what I have heard, especially since you are an auto, putting a big cam in there will affect drivability by quite a bit. Just some things to think about.
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matts22: Because it seems thats what a lot of people are shooting for and anything more would be unrealistic. Most serious cam only cars that I see are running low 11s (some in the 10s already), so I figured breaking into the 10s would be a good goal. Money is an issue though. I want to see how far I can go with cam only, then when Ive reached that point, I will do a heads and cam combo. I have some weight reduction, but its no gutted car. Im waiting to receive my converter back so that I can get the car back together and run it, so that I can see where Im at. When Im there, I will also weigh it so that I know where my weight stands. The cam Im looking for right now is for stock heads only. If I ever plan to do aftermarket heads, then its going to get a different cam, so Im not worried about the one I wanna purchase now fitting with aftermarket heads.
MSGHUFF: I dont know yet, I plan on taking it to the track as soon as I get my converter back and car together.
MSGHUFF: I dont know yet, I plan on taking it to the track as soon as I get my converter back and car together.
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I just dont want to base my choice solely on what it has done for others. That does come into play, but I dont wanna choose a cam only because it made 2 people go into the 10s. I want to pick a cam perfect for me, perfect for my modifications, one thats going to work best with what I have done to the car so far. Im shooting for 10s because its a realistic number that I have a chance at achieving. I just want to maximize/optimize my set up and get the best results. What one thing does for one person, may not do for another. Is there any way to determine by set up/parts which cam is best?
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From: La Porte, TX
Jeremy, other than a convertor, rear end gearing, and heads, the rest of your setup does not really play a role in cam selection. Cam selection is based on 4 main things:
1. Heads (flow numbers and what lift)
2. Drivability/Usage
3. Stall Conv.
4. Rear gearing
We know that you are sticking with stock heads, so you need a cam that is proven to work well with stock heads.
We know that you really don't drive this car much, so drivability (gas milage) isn't that big of a concern for you.
We know that you have a large stall, therefore you don't need a cam with a lot of lowend grunt, but rather something that will shine at the higher RPM's.
We know that you have a rather healthy 4.10 rear end gear to keep your revs up which also reflects a cam that does not need a lot of low end grunt. Also the 4.10 will help out tremendously in the drivability area.
So with all that said, you need an max effort cam. My suggestion would be one of the following:
G5X-3
MS3
Trex
or the new HPE cam but I can't think of the damn name. I'll go look it up.
Personally I would go with the X3. With the weight reduction, suspension and gear/convert combo that you are running, there is absolutely no reason at all that you can't get into the 10's cam only with the G5X-3. Now no more 2nd guessing and beating yourself up over it. I've seen you ask this questions many times, and every time somebody gives you the same answer G5X-3 or Trex. Flip a coin, and choose one, put the damn thing in, and get you *** back to the track. You will not be disapointed.
Matt
1. Heads (flow numbers and what lift)
2. Drivability/Usage
3. Stall Conv.
4. Rear gearing
We know that you are sticking with stock heads, so you need a cam that is proven to work well with stock heads.
We know that you really don't drive this car much, so drivability (gas milage) isn't that big of a concern for you.
We know that you have a large stall, therefore you don't need a cam with a lot of lowend grunt, but rather something that will shine at the higher RPM's.
We know that you have a rather healthy 4.10 rear end gear to keep your revs up which also reflects a cam that does not need a lot of low end grunt. Also the 4.10 will help out tremendously in the drivability area.
So with all that said, you need an max effort cam. My suggestion would be one of the following:
G5X-3
MS3
Trex
or the new HPE cam but I can't think of the damn name. I'll go look it up.
Personally I would go with the X3. With the weight reduction, suspension and gear/convert combo that you are running, there is absolutely no reason at all that you can't get into the 10's cam only with the G5X-3. Now no more 2nd guessing and beating yourself up over it. I've seen you ask this questions many times, and every time somebody gives you the same answer G5X-3 or Trex. Flip a coin, and choose one, put the damn thing in, and get you *** back to the track. You will not be disapointed.
Matt
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WS6snake-eater: Very well put! Very good observation. Your post really helped me out. You couldnt of said it better. One thing though, do I know you or do you know me? Have we met before? Anyhow, not only did you make things clear for me, but youve passed on a little knowledge as well. Thanks a lot for your input.
By the way, whats the MS3? Who makes it and what are the specs?
By the way, whats the MS3? Who makes it and what are the specs?
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Brett Foote TECH Fanatic
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From: La Porte, TX
MS3 is the Magic Stick 3 from Texas Speed. It seems to be putting out some pretty good numbers and times. Do a search or give them a call I'm not too sure on the specs... I have meet you once or twice at HRP but nothing major, mainly just know you from here on the boards.
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mc02ta: Why do you suggest I take off the Granatelli MAF and put the stock one back on?
WS6snake-eater: I see that youre running this cam, what shiftpoints are you running? Rev limiter? From what Ive read, this cam likes the higher rpms and I dont know how much my bottom end can handle. My car has never seen past 6600 rpms. I would need to keep my car's rpms way up there to benefit from this cam the most. I see that your car put down some nice dyno numbers, but Im not too worried about that, Im worried about what it does at the track.
WS6snake-eater: I see that youre running this cam, what shiftpoints are you running? Rev limiter? From what Ive read, this cam likes the higher rpms and I dont know how much my bottom end can handle. My car has never seen past 6600 rpms. I would need to keep my car's rpms way up there to benefit from this cam the most. I see that your car put down some nice dyno numbers, but Im not too worried about that, Im worried about what it does at the track.
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From: La Porte, TX
Last time at the track I was only running a 3600 convetor 3.73s, and 24* of timing on completely stock suspension and I ran an 11.3 at 119 standing on the breaks at the 1000' foot mark. I believe that I could have ran a 10 that night, but they kicked me off on my 1st pass, because I did not have a door bar on my cage or a 5 point harness (and I thought they were supposed to be leinant on street night 
) It was only my 2nd time to the track. I'm pretty sure that was the night that you were there. Keep in mind the conv. I was using is WAY understalled for this cam. I've since then, have upped to a 4200 stall and added more timing, lca's Torque arm and true duals. The car is so much faster now that it isn't even funny. I was also only shifting at 6400 rpm. However I now shift it 6750 with a 7000 limiter. If I don't run a 10.8 next time out I will be seriously pissed. 
Talk to LG if you decide to get this cam and tell him your gearing and stall, and he will be able to point you in the right direction for your shiftpoints. I should be getting back to the track within the next couple of weeks now that I have all the necessary safety items.
edit///// BTW I would ditch the damn MAF too. I've heard nothing but bad things about it. It's probably really screwing up your tune. I also think you still have a lot to gain with your current setup and some more tuning at the track.
) It was only my 2nd time to the track. I'm pretty sure that was the night that you were there. Keep in mind the conv. I was using is WAY understalled for this cam. I've since then, have upped to a 4200 stall and added more timing, lca's Torque arm and true duals. The car is so much faster now that it isn't even funny. I was also only shifting at 6400 rpm. However I now shift it 6750 with a 7000 limiter. If I don't run a 10.8 next time out I will be seriously pissed. Talk to LG if you decide to get this cam and tell him your gearing and stall, and he will be able to point you in the right direction for your shiftpoints. I should be getting back to the track within the next couple of weeks now that I have all the necessary safety items.edit///// BTW I would ditch the damn MAF too. I've heard nothing but bad things about it. It's probably really screwing up your tune. I also think you still have a lot to gain with your current setup and some more tuning at the track.
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Yeah, I've heard of people losing mph and rwhp from the GMS MAF.
I second the G5X3 idea. Your current choice of MTI 224 will not put you in the 10's naturally. What on that list do you already have besides the TC?
I second the G5X3 idea. Your current choice of MTI 224 will not put you in the 10's naturally. What on that list do you already have besides the TC?
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He has everything in that list already...He is just waiting on the Torque Convert. to get to him. I believe he sent it out to get restalled or something. The guy has dropped a lot of money into that car but still can't get it to run good times. He has every suspension component you could possibly throw at the the damn thing. I think the car just needs some time with somebody that is willing to help him get the suspension dialed in. If he can get that done and upgrade to a G5X-3 (or similiar), and a good tune, I'm sure he will get in the 10's not doubt at all. I mean all the parts are there, he just has to make them work together ie. shocks, t/a, and psi settings.
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Yes, that is correct. Everything in the list I already have. I had a Yank SS4000, but sent it to Yank to convert over to a PT4400. Mid 11s is what I was running back when the automatic first went in. Since then, a lot of weight has come out and lots of mods. I have yet to go to the track since all the changes, but I want to make sure that when I do, that I walk out of there with a 10 sec. timeslip. I definately need to get the suspension dialed in and I need help doing so because Im no expert. So if a cam is based on usage, gearing, converter, and heads, this is what Im working with:
completely stock 241 heads
Yank PT4400
4.11
drag use, not concerned with drivability too much
Why wouldnt I need a cam that doesnt really need low end power? I thought that torque is what gets you out of the whole and then the car relies on the hp to move it down the track. These arent my beliefs, but rather something that Ive read. My current cam (MTI C2) has been in the car for a year and a half now and Im ready for a swap. I just wanna make sure that I pick the right one because I dont wanna swap cams again until I do heads. I know that youve mentioned what you look at when choosing cams and thats whats listed above, but could you explain. How do the things above relate to cams?
completely stock 241 heads
Yank PT4400
4.11
drag use, not concerned with drivability too much
Why wouldnt I need a cam that doesnt really need low end power? I thought that torque is what gets you out of the whole and then the car relies on the hp to move it down the track. These arent my beliefs, but rather something that Ive read. My current cam (MTI C2) has been in the car for a year and a half now and Im ready for a swap. I just wanna make sure that I pick the right one because I dont wanna swap cams again until I do heads. I know that youve mentioned what you look at when choosing cams and thats whats listed above, but could you explain. How do the things above relate to cams?
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Nah they are all pretty much the same. Anyone one of them will get you where you want to be. As far as your getting out of the whold statement. Yes, that holds true, but you need to look at the bigger picture. If you have a big as convertor and gears, you will be leaving at a higher RPM. Generally you want to launch where your TQ is the greatest. Since you have a 4400 stall then you need a cam that is really beginning to shine in the TQ curve around 4400 rpm. All of the cams listed do that. Sure there are other cams that make the TQ sooner in the RPM range (that's what makes them "streetable") but if you have a cam that is making shitloads of TQ at 3000 and the curve is already beginning to fall when you launch (in your case 4400 rpm) then your convertor will actually be useless. You want your TQ to peak around your convertor flash point or vice versa. I hope I explained that good, and didn't just make you more confused.
Matt
Matt
Originally Posted by BlackBeaSSt
I mean between the Magic stick 3, T-Rex, and G5X-2, the specs are so close, how can I figure which one will benefit me most? There has to be a best.
-Todd
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Originally Posted by WS6snake-eater
Nah they are all pretty much the same. Anyone one of them will get you where you want to be. As far as your getting out of the whold statement. Yes, that holds true, but you need to look at the bigger picture. If you have a big as convertor and gears, you will be leaving at a higher RPM. Generally you want to launch where your TQ is the greatest. Since you have a 4400 stall then you need a cam that is really beginning to shine in the TQ curve around 4400 rpm. All of the cams listed do that. Sure there are other cams that make the TQ sooner in the RPM range (that's what makes them "streetable") but if you have a cam that is making shitloads of TQ at 3000 and the curve is already beginning to fall when you launch (in your case 4400 rpm) then your convertor will actually be useless. You want your TQ to peak around your convertor flash point or vice versa. I hope I explained that good, and didn't just make you more confused.
Matt
Matt
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I didnt mention this in the opening post, but I wont be shifting past 6600 rpms and I feel that its an important factor in choosing the right cam because from the research that Ive done, the T-Rex likes to be shifted between 6800-7000 rpms and could possibly be eliminated from my choices. However, Ive come up with this, since Im running a really efficient tranny and converter, also with good shift extension, and a good low gear, wouldnt I be looking for a cam that makes the most power where my engine's rpms are? For instance, my car is shifting at 6600 and my converter doesnt let my rpms drop any lower than 5500 rpms, wouldnt I want a cam that makes the most power between 5500 rpms and 6600 rpms?